topic Re:Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled) in Graphics

Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

NikosD — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 08:57:02 GMT

Hello.

According to various reliable sources of respected Tech Hardware community, it seems that the new Battlemage Arc B580 card has s e r i o u s issues with many games dropping the performance a lot and causing stuttering when used on older generation systems and CPUs.

For example Hardware Canucks tested Core i5 9600K with ResizableBAR = ON here:

https://youtu.be/npIpWFSfmv4

Also Hardware Unboxed tested a Ryzen 5 2600X with ReBAR - ON here:

https://youtu.be/3dF_xJytE7g

Intel officially recommends Intel 10th generation or above and AMD Ryzen 3000 or above for Alchemist cards and Battlemage cards but these systems tested above have ReBAR backported and enabled, during tests.

Also, there are reports that even using a Ryzen 5 3600, the issues are the same.

It doesn't seem to be a PCIe v3.0 issue because the performance drop is huge and not justified by PCIe lower version.

I have an Intel Core i7 9700 CPU with backported ReBAR support in my BIOS and using Arc A380 have no issues (reBAR enabled with PCIe v3.0)

Questions:

1) Has Intel investigated the issue using B580 on older systems ?

2) Is there a technical explanation ?

3) Are you going to fix it ?

Thank you,

Nikos

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DieterMeier — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 10:47:46 GMT

Could someone from Intel please respond and clarify if this is a software or hardware problem? Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00GmwHIJuJY

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

AlHill — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 11:05:35 GMT

It could be that you have not met the minimum requirements for ARC:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics/intel-arc-dedicated-graphics-family.html

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[Fear and the desire for control are primary motivators for shadow dwellers. ]

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DieterMeier — Sat, 04 Jan 2025 13:34:45 GMT

As you can see in the video from Hardware Unboxed, the problem still persists with newer systems (e.g. Ryzen 5600).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00GmwHIJuJY

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DieterMeier — Tue, 07 Jan 2025 16:22:44 GMT

push

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

NikosD — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 07:21:42 GMT

More people get involved in the issue, I hope Intel does too.

Here is a deep dive to the Driver Overhead issue:

https://chipsandcheese.com/p/digging-into-driver-overhead-on-intels

Re:Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DeancR_Intel — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 23:34:57 GMT

Hi NikosD,

Thank you for posting in the Community!

I would like to clarify what are the game titles you experience low performance with this Graphic Card. I highly suggest following the recommended specs when using Intel Arc Graphics for better compatibility and performance, make sure to enable ReBar feature as well.

Here's the link for reference:

Intel® Arc™ Graphics – Desktop Quick Start Guide

You may follow the steps here as well and provide the necessary information:

Need help? Reporting a bug or issue with Arc GPU? - PLEASE READ THIS FIRST! - Intel Community

Best regards,

Dean R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

NikosD — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 08:42:50 GMT

Hello.

Not all games are affected by this issue.

HUB measured a loss of 18% on average using Ryzen 5 5600 (ReBAR enabled using PCIe v4.0) and Arc B580 by testing 12 rather CPU demanding games.

You can watch this for more info and details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYOj-r_-3mA

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DieterMeier — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 14:17:12 GMT

Very bad frame pacing on following configuration:

Game: Counter Strike 2 (Steam)

resizeable BAR and above 4G decoding are on

Info from dxdiag:

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 1/11/2025, 15:01:30
Operating System: Windows 11 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 22631) (22621.ni_release.220506-1250)
Language: German (Regional Setting: German)
System Manufacturer: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd
System Model: MS-7B86
BIOS: A.I5 (type: UEFI)
Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Six-Core Processor (12 CPUs), ~3.4GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16310MB RAM
Page File: 8099MB used, 9233MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 12
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: 120 DPI (125 percent)
System DPI Setting: 120 DPI (125 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: UnKnown
Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
DirectX Database Version: 1.6.5
DxDiag Version: 10.00.22621.3527 64bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: Intel(R) Arc(TM) B580 Graphics
Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
Chip type: Intel(R) Arc(TM) B580 Graphics Family
DAC type: Internal
Device Type: Full Device (POST)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_E20B&SUBSYS_11008086&REV_00
Device Status: 0180200A [DN_DRIVER_LOADED|DN_STARTED|DN_DISABLEABLE|DN_NT_ENUMERATOR|DN_NT_DRIVER]
Device Problem Code: No Problem
Driver Problem Code: Unknown
Display Memory: 20270 MB
Dedicated Memory: 12116 MB
Shared Memory: 8154 MB
Current Mode: 2560 x 1440 (32 bit) (59Hz)
HDR Support: Supported
Display Topology: Internal
Display Color Space: DXGI_COLOR_SPACE_RGB_FULL_G22_NONE_P709
Color Primaries: Red(0.662109,0.330078), Green(0.303711,0.614258), Blue(0.149414,0.061523), White Point(0.313477,0.329102)
Display Luminance: Min Luminance = 0.500000, Max Luminance = 270.000000, MaxFullFrameLuminance = 270.000000
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: DELL P2418D
Monitor Id: DELD0C1
Native Mode: 2560 x 1440(p) (59.951Hz)
Output Type: Displayport External
Monitor Capabilities: HDR Not Supported
Display Pixel Format: DISPLAYCONFIG_PIXELFORMAT_32BPP
Advanced Color: AdvancedColorSupported
Driver Name: C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\iigd_dch_d.inf_amd64_d004c537b46a7c28\igd9trinity64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\iigd_dch_d.inf_amd64_d004c537b46a7c28\igd10iumd64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\iigd_dch_d.inf_amd64_d004c537b46a7c28\igd10iumd64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\iigd_dch_d.inf_amd64_d004c537b46a7c28\igd12umd64.dll
Driver File Version: 32.00.0101.6256 (English)
Driver Version: 32.0.101.6256
DDI Version: 12
Feature Levels: 12_2,12_1,12_0,11_1,11_0,10_1,10_0,9_3,9_2,9_1
Driver Model: WDDM 3.1
Hardware Scheduling: DriverSupportState:Stable Enabled:True
Displayable: Supported
Graphics Preemption: Triangle
Compute Preemption: Thread
Miracast: Not Supported
Detachable GPU: No
Hybrid Graphics GPU: Discrete
Power P-states: Not Supported
Virtualization: Paravirtualization
Block List: DISABLE_HWSCH
Catalog Attributes: Universal:True Declarative:True
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 26.12.2024 01:00:00, 26058288 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: n/a
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-A14B-11CF-46FB-6531AFC2ED35}
Vendor ID: 0x8086
Device ID: 0xE20B
SubSys ID: 0x11008086
Revision ID: 0x0000
Driver Strong Name: oem22.inf:5f63e534fed5c1ae:BMG_IAG_E20B:32.0.101.6256:PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_E20B
Rank Of Driver: 00CF2001

Re:Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DeancR_Intel — Fri, 17 Jan 2025 08:42:40 GMT

Hi NikosD,

Intel hasn't officially commented on the B580 issues yet, but they are aware of the problem and are actively looking into it. Given the attention this issue is receiving, we can likely expect an update from Intel soon.

You may look up on the system requirements here in this link as well: Intel® Arc™ Graphics – Desktop Quick Start Guide

Hi DieterMeier

This is well acknowledged however, I suggest submitting a new thread for this inquiry to avoid further confusions.

Best regards,

Dean R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

CyrusTe — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 03:21:17 GMT

When I checked out the system requirements AMD does not use Resizable BAR but it seems they use Smart Access Memory? Could this have something to do with the issues?

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

CyrusTe — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 03:24:10 GMT

Is this a old hardware issue or a bottleneck issue? I would like to know if you get a new generation budget CPU if you will still take a 20% hit on performance.

Re:Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DeancR_Intel — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 03:56:20 GMT

Hi NikosD,

I wanted to follow up on the previous message regarding your inquiry. Have you had a chance to review it? If you have any questions or need further information, please let me know.

Hi CyrusTe,

I don't have the necessary information for that as of now but, I suggest as well submitting a new thread for this inquiry to avoid further confusions.

Best regards,

Dean R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

NikosD — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 10:31:22 GMT

Hello,

@DeancR_Intel

The price and availability of Battlemage cards here in Greece is a mess.

Only two models of Arc B580 (from AIBs only not Intel card) with prices all over the place, they change almost every day.

Today the cheapest model of the two has a price of 380€

You can find the Arc B570 at 300€ (only one model)

I'll wait for the competition to catch up in March, more or less and check the availability and price of all three vendors (Intel, AMD, NVidia) in order to decide which one will be my next purchase.

I hope Intel will have fixed even a little, its issues with older systems and Arc Battlemage cards.

@CyrusTe

ReBAR is the same thing as S.A.M from AMD.

Also, the community has labeled the issues described here as "Driver Overhead" problem and it has to do with the driver fighting for CPU resources along with the game engine, in high demanding CPU games.

I haven't seen anywhere a very exhaustive research to find out exactly the CPU model threshold of Intel and AMD CPUs, in order to be safe from performance loss.

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DieterMeier — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 17:34:04 GMT

I couldn't even play 20 year old games without serious frame pacing issues using an Ryzen 2600. Tested many games but Intel stays silent.

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

AlHill — Wed, 22 Jan 2025 17:40:14 GMT

Your Ryaen 2600 is not supported:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000091128/graphics/intel-arc-dedicated-graphics-family.html

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[W10 is today's XP ]

Re:Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

DeancR_Intel — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 06:16:55 GMT

Hi NikosD,

Thank you for this feedback and I would like you to know that Intel is actively working on this kind of issues from various customers. If you ever want to raise your concern with this in the future, I suggest creating a new thread or contact our Intel Customer Support lines here in this link: Intel Support.

Best regards,

Dean R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: Using Battlemage Arc B580 with older CPUs on older systems (ReBAR enabled)

uwonbidvd — Sat, 01 Mar 2025 13:33:25 GMT

Can we get an update from Intel on this? I'm close to sending my B580 back at this point, I'm running a Ryzen 5600X which does meet the hardware requirements, but due to this performance issue I'm seeing about a 20% performance penalty, meaning it wasn't really a worthwhile upgrade from my ancient 1070.

Struggling to find any updates from Intel on this issue, it's clearly not the fault of the CPU when you look at comparisons with the 4060 on that same CPU and the CPU is not maxed out, so it's not a hardware bottleneck on the processor.

Is this a driver overhead issue?

Is it going to be addressed?

Do I need to return my card because it is not performing as expected despite meeting the system requirements?

I really like the look of the card and I want it to work out, but this needs addressing and Intel keeping quiet on it will just let the bad press about the issue guide people's purchase decisions.