topic Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver in Graphics

Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:40:15 GMT

We use a browser plugin that allows users to view CAD drawings on their computer. We just started deploying some Skylake i5 computers with Intel 530 graphics, and the render times for the drawings is intolerable.

The Pentium Dual Core computer with Intel HD graphics could load the drawing in about 10 seconds. The i5/530 combination takes 1:10 seconds.

We tried the latest 530 driver and even the Beta driver and cannot get it to run any faster.

The only way we could make the drawing load fast was to remove the intel video drivers completely and leave it with the "Microsoft Basic Adapter"

I've already contacted the vendor as well, but I can't see how removing the video driver makes it run better.

Here are some speed tests with various computers.

Dell Optiplex 7040 Windows 10 x64 with skylake i5-6500T cpu, 8GB RAM, and Intel 530 graphics – Take 1 minute 10 seconds. (2016 computer)

The computer it replaced was

Dell Optiplex 790 Windows 7 x64 with Pentium Dual core, 4GB RAM Intel HD graphics – Takes about 12 seconds to load. (2011 Computer)

Here are some tests of some other PCs we have.

Dell Optiplex 9020 Windows 7 x64 with Haswell i5 cpu, 8GB RAM and Intel HD4600 – Takes about 10 seconds to load the 800k file. (2014 computer)

Dell Optiplex 7020 Windows 10 x64 with Haswell i5 cpu, 8GB RAM, AMD RADEON HD 6350 – 26 seconds (2015 computer)

Dell Optiplex 7010 Windows 10 x64 with Sandy Bridge i3 cpu, 4GB RAM, Intel HD 4000 graphics – 22 seconds (2013 computer)

Dell Latitude E6440 Windows 10 x64 with Haswell i5-4310M cpu, 8GB RAM Intel HD4600 – 32 seconds (2015 computer)

Dell Precision T3620 Windows 7 x64 with Skylake i7 CPU and Nvidia Quadro K2200 – About 6 seconds to load. (2016 computer)

Dell Precision T3620 Windows 10 x64 with Skylake i7 CPU and Nvidia Quadro K2200 – About 15 seconds to load. (2016 computer)

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 17:02:24 GMT

Hello Stonent,

I am really sorry for any inconvenience that you may have due to this matter.

Before I can proceed to provide your further assistance, I would like to confirm some details with you:

Which is it the version of CAD that you are currently running?

Could you please let me know if your computer has a graphics card?

If your computer has a graphics card, could you please provide me the model?

Also, could you please provide me the model of the RAM that you are currently using?

And I would like to know which will be the current BIOS version that you are running?

I am looking forward to heard from you.

Regards,

Angie.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:01:48 GMT

More information:

I used process explorer to monitor the stack the program was using.

What I see is it is using the canonical display driver (cdd.dll) when drawing and also dxgmms2.sys which I'm assuming is Direct X on the Intel drivers.

When no drivers were loaded, those were not being used.

CPU utilization when on the Intel drivers was about 1 to 2 percent for that process during drawing.

CPU utilization when on the Microsoft Basic display driver was about 3 to 8 percent when drawing.

So it looks like the CPU can render faster than the video card can.

Here is the two stacks previously mentioned

When it was using the Intel 530 graphics drivers and running slow:

ntoskrnl.exe!KeSynchronizeExecution+0x3de6

ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0x1320

ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0xd38

ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0x3fd

dxgmms2.sys+0x1d864

dxgmms2.sys+0x79f27

dxgmms2.sys+0x779ce

dxgmms2.sys+0x46b9c

dxgmms2.sys+0x2f223

dxgmms2.sys+0x3127d

dxgkrnl.sys+0x88ac5

cdd.dll+0x10f99

wow64win.dll+0x1386a

wow64win.dll+0xfd02

wow64.dll!Wow64SystemServiceEx+0x155

wow64cpu.dll!TurboDispatchJumpAddressEnd+0xb

wow64.dll!Wow64LdrpInitialize+0x252

wow64.dll!Wow64LdrpInitialize+0x177

ntdll.dll!LdrInitShimEngineDynamic+0x26e7

ntdll.dll!memset+0x1b581

ntdll.dll!LdrInitializeThunk+0xe

Stack when no driver loaded and running fast:

ntoskrnl.exe!KeSynchronizeExecution+0x3de6

ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0x1320

ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0xd38

ntoskrnl.exe!KeWaitForMultipleObjects+0x3fd

win32kfull.sys!xxxUpdateInputHangInfo+0x585

wow64win.dll+0x1344a

wow64win.dll+0x84ae

wow64.dll!Wow64SystemServiceEx+0x155

wow64cpu.dll!TurboDispatchJumpAddressEnd+0xb

wow64.dll!Wow64LdrpInitialize+0x252

wow64.dll!Wow64LdrpInitialize+0x177

ntdll.dll!LdrInitShimEngineDynamic+0x26e7

ntdll.dll!memset+0x1b581

ntdll.dll!LdrInitializeThunk+0xe

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 19:06:57 GMT

Sorry the last post never sent last night.

The program is called Swiftview. It's a commercial browser plugin that allows you to view HPGL/2, PCL, TIFF, and ZHP files. The drawings themselves are technically no longer the original CAD drawings but flattened versions.

The drawings still "render" when loaded, the best way to explain it is how years ago in Adobe acrobat when our computers were slower, embedded drawings within PDF documents would draw themselves and you could see the lines going around on the screen.

I suspect it is trying to use Windows GDI to draw in place. It does not use OPENGL or anything like that.

It is interesting how the drawing will render instantly on a Haswell Intel HD4600 system, or a Skylake system with a Quadro K2200, but not the 530 graphics.

I did contact Swiftview support and they supplied me with their latest version, but it only minimally offered a speed increase.

They had me send them some log files.

I have a theory... I think maybe since WIndows GDI and GDI+ are no longer used to render the Microsoft Windows GUI itself (WPF is used now), maybe those functions were not targeted for optimization or even accelerated in the Intel 530 graphics drivers.

But since this program is designed to allow you to view certain CAD files without a the CAD applications, it doesn't attempt to use OpenGL.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:24:15 GMT

Hello Stonent,

Thank you for your fast response, I would like to confirm some more details, that will help me to continue with the research in order for me to be able to help you with your concern:

Could you please let me know if your computer has a graphics card?

If your computer has a graphics card, could you please provide me the model?

Also, could you please provide me the model of the RAM that you are currently using?

And I would like to know which will be the current BIOS version that you are running?

Your reply it is really appreciated.

Regards,

Angie

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 06:33:14 GMT

Could you please let me know if your computer has a graphics card?

It has an Intel 530 graphics chip. Nothing more.

Also, could you please provide me the model of the RAM that you are currently using?

Whatever is standard in the Dells. The systems are not upgraded.

In my experience Dell tends to use Hynix, Elpida, or Micron Technology RAM.

And I would like to know which will be the current BIOS version that you are running?

It has bios 1.4.5 which is the latest Dell has.

These are all Optiplex 7040 Micro form factor systems with a 256GB SSD and 8GB of ram. They all have the same issue because they're all identical.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 19:40:04 GMT

I also wanted to add that connecting to one of these PCs over Remote Desktop (RDP), the drawings render instantly as well.

And I suppose that should make sense as well since the drawings are being rendered by the CPU.

I connected to a computer with an i5-4590 and HD4600 graphics and the drawing renders as fast as you can say "1, 2" over remote desktop.

When at the console that one takes about 10 seconds, which is still significantly better than the new computers with 530 graphics, but still 5 to 10x as slower as RDP.

For reference that computer is a Dell Optiplex 9020 with i5-4590 and HD4600 driver 10.18.10.3574 dated 4/24/2014.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 19:45:43 GMT

I pulled the ram on one of the Optiplex 7040 computers that has the 1m:10 render time.

It has a single 8GB Module,

SK Hynix

8GB 2Rx8 PC4-2133P-SE0-11

MHA41GS6AFR8N-TF N0 AC

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 22:32:26 GMT

Hello Stonent,

Thank you for all the information provided.

I will proceed to do a deeper research in order to give you more details that may help you with your current concern.

Regards,

Angie.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Tue, 08 Nov 2016 22:49:37 GMT

Thanks I will check back periodically.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Sat, 19 Nov 2016 00:58:53 GMT

Hello Stonent,

I am still working on your case. Although I would like to confirm if it is possible the model of your motherboard? This details will help me with further investigation.

All the information that you have provided it is very appreciated.

Regards,

Angie

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:10:55 GMT

They are all Dell systems. Optiplex, and Latitude using the Dell motherboards.

The majority of the systems are Optiplex 7040 Micro form factors. They use the Intel Q170 chipset with 530 graphics and a i5-6500T processor.

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/ecemea-optiplex-7040-technical-spec-sheet.pdf http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/ecemea-optiplex-7040-technical-spec-sheet.pdf

Using the Skylake graphics the performance is slowest 1 minute to 1.5 minutes to render. Haswell graphics, it renders in about 30 seconds (Optiplex 9020 and Latitude E6440).

The computer with Sandybridge graphics (Optiplex 790) rendered much faster than Haswell.

If I remove the graphics driver completely and use the "microsoft basic display" adapter. All of them render the drawings instantly.

It just seems like performance has continually gotten slower with each revision.

We have about 196 of the Optiplex 7040 systems at our site.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 23:22:12 GMT

Hello Stonent,

Thank you very much for all the information.

My suggestion will be to try to install your manufacturer (OEM) drivers at first. In order to have all the unlocked features provided by your OEM.

http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/4/Drivers/DriversDetails?driverId=RCVDX&fileId=3583696995&osCode=WT64A&productCode=optiplex-7040-desktop&languageCode=en&categoryId=VI Dell Optioplex 7040/ Intel HD, 5300, 5500, 6000, 515, 520, 530, P530, Iris 540 Graphics Driver

Also, if after the installation of the OEM driver if the issue persists. You can also try a manual install with the Intel generic drivers for your Intel® HD Graphics 530.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/graphics-drivers/000005629.html Manually Install an Intel® Graphics Driver http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/graphics-drivers/000005629.html inhttp://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/graphics-drivers/000005629.html Windows® 10 and Windows 8*/8.1*

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26404/Intel-Graphics-Driver-15-45-?product=88345 Version: 15.45.10.4542 (Latest) Date: 11/9/2016

Please let me know how it goes.

Regards,

Angie

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 18:57:12 GMT

We have already tried both. Dell provides us with a recommended set of drivers all packaged up and that's what goes into our image. When the users complained about the performance, we tried the latest driver Dell provided (as opposed to their recommended driver) and there was little to no change. We finally installed the latest drivers from Intel, and still, little to no change.

One of our sites said they were able to get the performance working better by changing the display to 16bit rather than 32bit. So whatever is going on in the drivers, they are not optimized well for 32bit in this manner. At least not like they were back with the Optiplex 790 that has the Q65 chipset with corresponding Intel graphics. (That was the older 4 or 5 year old model that renders these drawings really fast)

So you may say "well just run the displays at 16bit" and that is a possibility but we have a few hundred of these systems and they are mostly locked down so the users cannot make changes to them which would mean we (the IT support people) would have ti visit each PC individually, and if for some reason another user logged in, it would reset the display settings in their profile and use 32bit mode again.

So the way I see it, is there must have been some kind of performance trade-off that intel chose that made the software run poorly.

If there's another route that I need to take with this, let me know. The trial version of the Swiftview software is available for download from their site and I can provide a sample drawing to Intel if they want to monitor how the software is trying to interact with the driver.

My site has a few hundred of these Skylake systems with Intel 530 graphics, but we're set to replace nearly twice as many computers in 2017 which depending on when we order them, could be Skylake or could be Kabylake. And since our testing shows the performance has steadily decreased since the Q65 chipset systems (with Skylake graphics being 3x slower than Haswell and 10x slower than Q65!), we're not very confident that the performance is going to be any better, and likely will be worse still.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 19:35:34 GMT

And now I find out there's apparently no way to change the color depth to 16bit in WIndows 10. It can be done in the application compatibility more settings but since this is a browser plugin, you can't do that apparently.

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 20:16:30 GMT

Hello Stonent,

Thanks for your reply.

After an extensive research, I was unable to confirm the system requirement for Swiftview.

In order to assist you, please provide me with the following information:

CategoryQuestionsAnswers (N/A if not applicable)DescriptionProvide a detailed description of the issue Please place an X to the right of the option showing how often you see this issue using specific steps. (Ex: 'Every few times a game is started it flickers.' <- This would be "Often")</span>

Always (100%):

Often (51-99%):

Sporadic (20-50%):

Very Sporadic (<20%):</span>Hardware (HW)Brand and Model of the system. Hybrid or switchable graphics system?

ie Does it have AMD or NV graphics too? Make and model of any Displays that are used to see the issue (see note2 below).

LFP = Local Flat Panel (Laptop panel)

EFP = External Flat Panel (Monitor you plug in) How much memory [RAM] in the system (see note2 below). Provide any other hardware needed to replicate the issue.

ie: Cables&brand, cable type [vga, hdmi, DP, etc], dock, dongles/adapters, etc <span style="border: none windowte...

Re: Program slower with newer graphics chips, fastest with no driver

idata — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 02:46:24 GMT

Hello Stonent,

Please do not hesitate to reply as soon as possible with the information previously requested.

As soon as you reply I will continue with the investigation.

Best regards,

Angie