topic Re: Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"? in Mobile and Desktop Processors

Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

KrissyG — Sat, 04 Feb 2023 07:02:48 GMT

Q. How can i make the CPU use it full/selected power range?

Problem description:
I use cmd.exe to process videos.
I can reproduce it almost each time by selecting the command line window - therefore, when 'seen' my interests, the CPU performs more, but 'unseen' loses performance?
Especially when i minimize the command line window, the CPU usage drops almost the very same moment, or as seen on the screen - with a transition.

The performance difference varies, it sometimes exceeds 20% "seen vs unseen", so theoretically it is more efficient what the CPU does, but in terms of getting the job done, it takes longer.

Additional information:
- TDP limit set to 200Watts, however it does not affect how the whole thing happens
- water cooling, without TDP limit the CPU core temp usually exceeds 85°C
- all drivers up to date
- screen recording is somehow preventing the CPU usage to become high, therefore i can not record it with an application (is this a hint on what is happening?)

Below 6 hours of testing - without me using the PC at all, each time the TDP reached 200W it was the beginning of processing a new file, right after that, the performance drops again - perfectly seen on the graph:

Thanks in advance for any information!

Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

Steven_Intel — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 21:21:00 GMT

Hello KrissyG,

Thank you for posting on the Intel® communities.

In order to better assist you and provide further recommendations, please download the Intel® SSU https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility-for-Windows-

Open the application and select "Everything", click on "Scan" to see the system and device information. By default, Intel® SSU will take you to the "Summary View". Click on the menu where it says "Summary" to change to "Detailed View". To save your scan, click on "Next", then "Save". Please attach the file to your reply.

Best regards,

Steven G.

Intel Customer Support Technician.

Re: Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

KrissyG — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 23:00:25 GMT

Thanks for the interests!
I will do a clean install of win10 on a M2 SSD to see if that can fix some things.
i need to add, that i tried changing the process priority to 'Realtime' and 'High' but that did not affect what is happening.

Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

Steven_Intel — Fri, 10 Feb 2023 18:42:12 GMT

Thank you for your response.

Please let me know once you have performed the clean installation of Windows 10 and if that made any difference.

Best regards,

Steven G.

Intel Customer Support Technician.

Re: Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

KrissyG — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:47:56 GMT

This is what i learned while reinstalling win 10:
- need to use HDMI to install win10, can't use DispayPort 1.2 nor 1.4
- bcoz of the updates that somehow require the original order, it took about 6hrs to have all of them up to date
- first 3 updates had easy BIOS access and even motherboard logon screen, after that it skipped all that regardless if HDMI or DP
- integrated Intel 700 series graphic chip did run up to the 2 last updates on VGA resolution....not even HD (i blame Windows for that, bcoz of lack of NET. 4.5 i could not install many drivers, and i could not install NET 4.5 bcoz Windows was not compatible without all updates
- no change in performance at all

Yet again,just by selecting cmd.exe with the mouse cursor , does result in drawing more power from the CPU. Clicking on 'minimize' almost each time results in intimidate drop of power usage, sometimes it slowly decreases.
about 5hrs of collecting logs from XTU software:

Average power usage is close to 75Watts, but the very moment i select cmd.exe, it rises to 125~160Watts, which is like double of what it otherwise does.
Also while browsing for solutions, i found a hint from a reddit user....apparently the CPU does not really want to use the performance cores.
That actually explains, why temperature is higher on E-cores and not P-cores:

At this point, i just know that CPU or Windows? prefers efficiency cores.

However, the XTU stress tests do actually use it fully:

Stress tests, depending on which one i run, can use up to 235Watts constantly.

Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

Steven_Intel — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 21:23:09 GMT

Many thanks for all the information provided.

I will research about this and as soon as I have an update, I will let you know.

Best regards,

Steven G.

Intel Customer Support Technician.

Re: Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

KrissyG — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 21:55:44 GMT

Sure, thanks!

I actually made a mistake, i should have run similar tests within the early updates right after the clean install of Win10.
Maybe some of the updates are actually responsible for this.

Now i will never know, and i definitely don't want to go through another 6hrs of updates

Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

Steven_Intel — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 22:39:59 GMT

Hello KrissyG,

Many thanks for your patience.

While executing code, Enhanced Intel Speed Step Technology and Intel Speed Shift technology optimize the processor's IA core frequency and voltage based on workload. Each frequency and voltage operating point is defined by ACPI (Advanced configuration and power interface) as a P-state. When the processor is not executing code, it is idle. A low-power idle state is defined by ACPI as a C-state. In general, deeper power c-states have longer entry and exit latencies. Page 58. Volume 1.

For more information about Power management on the Processor check datasheet (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/processors/core/core-technical-resources.html) 13th Generation Intel® Core™ Processor Family Page 56 Volume 1.

Since I noticed that your system is thermal throttling, please ensure the following:

Make sure that the thermal solution being used is compatible and correct for the specific CPU.
Verify proper installation of the processor thermal solution.
Make sure to apply the right amount of thermal interface material (TIM).
Check system fan operation.
Check air ventilation.

As well, based on the SSU report, the memory modules are running at 2133MHz, which is above the processor specifications for (DDR4 3200MT/s). We recommend running the memory under the processor's specifications.

Best regards,

Steven G.

Intel Customer Support Technician.

Re: Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

KrissyG — Sat, 18 Feb 2023 12:19:56 GMT

@Steven_Intel wrote:

Hello KrissyG,

Many thanks for your patience.

haha, i think i should be thanking for that

While executing code, Enhanced Intel Speed Step Technology and Intel Speed Shift technology optimize the processor's IA core frequency and voltage based on workload. Each frequency and voltage operating point is defined by ACPI (Advanced configuration and power interface) as a P-state. When the processor is not executing code, it is idle. A low-power idle state is defined by ACPI as a C-state. In general, deeper power c-states have longer entry and exit latencies. Page 58. Volume 1.

For more information about Power management on the Processor check datasheet (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/processors/core/core-technical-resources.html) 13th Generation Intel® Core™ Processor Family Page 56 Volume 1.

I actually went BIOS, and disabled and/or enabled everything that could limit performance or optimize for efficiency,
the result was no change at all, and i made sure the BIOS did save the changes.

Since I noticed that your system is thermal throttling, please ensure the following:

Make sure that the thermal solution being used is compatible and correct for the specific CPU.

Verify proper installation of the processor thermal solution.

Make sure to apply the right amount of thermal interface material (TIM).

Check system fan operation.

Check air ventilation.

The thermal throttling happens when i do no set any power limit, which means over 220Watts the CPU goes over +90*C
And since i don't like the CPU going +100*C i just set a 200W TDP limit.

The system runs on water cooling - both CPU and the graphic card.
Also, while with XTU stress tests, regardless if TDP limit or not, the CPU would always go max performance, and without TDP limit it went +100*C without BSOD even for 30minutes, which was the longest i was willing to test it for.
The CPU can literally do that stress test for any amount of time at +100*C with no problem.

As well, based on the SSU report, the memory modules are running at 2133MHz, which is above the processor specifications for (DDR4 3200MT/s). We recommend running the memory under the processor's specifications.

...well, even if you say so, this i the default speed, it even says it is:

I knew the RAM runs at that speed, but my old setup did run at same speed, bcoz the RAM had also same defaults.

I can actually only raise the speed, and the easiest way is to enable XMP profile, which makes RAM run at 3200Mhz , and this also does not affect anything at all.

Now got myself a tripod just to record this on video, bcoz like i mentioned before, screen recording with an app somehow affects the whole thing. So attached a video of me literally just minimizing the cmd.exe window and the CPU did really follow my lead and did exactly what i have been talking about.

i will try out more BIOS scenarios where i disable/enable some settings but not all at once, just multiple combinations, and after that i will just assume this as non fixable. After all, it makes no sense

Thanks again for taking your time!

Re: Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

KrissyG — Sat, 18 Feb 2023 12:49:32 GMT

Solved ,but feel free to call me dumb

Q. Why would XTU pull out full performance, but a different program can't?
A. Bcoz XTU while doing stress tests, uses Admin authority, which cmd.exe was not doing.

"Run as Admin" is the solution.
The hint was there from the beginning on, it's just for some reason, cmd.exe has been not executed in admin mode.
I can no longer run certain programs, shortcuts or batch files with 'run as admin' it just nothing happens when i do, but some i still can.
I blame Windows updates for that - again.

I am unaware of how selecting the window, magically gives it the admin authority, while minimizing takes it away.

Thanks again and sorry for wasting your time!

Re:Low CPU usage "schrödinger cat CPU"?

Steven_Intel — Tue, 21 Feb 2023 16:14:59 GMT

Thank you for all the detailed information and for letting us know you were able to solve the issue. Hopefully, it may help other community members as well.

Since the thread is now solved, we will close it. If you need any additional information, please submit a new question, as this thread will no longer be monitored.

Best regards,

Steven G.

Intel Customer Support Technician.