topic Re: i5-13400 running below ambient in Mobile and Desktop Processors

i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Wed, 10 May 2023 00:45:23 GMT

Hi, i tried Intel Costumer Support with no luck. They said it's normal, but my CPU can't run below ambient temperature, it's a fact. I owned a 12400 and i made a little upgrade. I sold my previous CPU and bought this one (13400). The 12400 ran perfectly, no issues at all. Cores and package were above ambient temperature. But this one isn't. I ran Intel XTU, Intel Diagnostic Tool, Intel ID Utility, everything seems fine. In fact, load temps are also very low. Maybe a broken sensor? I need a solution.
Here are some pics of the issue:

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

n_scott_pearson — Wed, 10 May 2023 04:49:25 GMT

Just throwing in my two cents worth.
It's most-definitely NOT a broken sensor. You have separate DTS sensors in every core and they are all consistent in their representation of temperatures. Further, the package temperature readings are determined from the various DTS readings and remain consistent with them.
I am suspicious that an offset has been written to the Temperature Target MSR, causing all readings to be skued low (this would be a mobo BIOS issue). Can you dump the contents of this MSR?
...S

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Wed, 10 May 2023 05:44:08 GMT

Hello, and thanks for your answer. How can i do that (dump the contents of this MSR)? Sorry for my ignorance. Cheers.

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Wed, 10 May 2023 06:17:30 GMT

Which tool and/or command should i use? Could you provide me a link and the command that i should use? Thanks.

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Wed, 10 May 2023 06:31:02 GMT

I tried Crystal CPU ID. I don't know if this it the dump you wanted. Sorry.

MSR : 63-32 31-0
----------------------------
00000000 : 00000000 00001FFF
00000001 : 00000000 00000000
00000006 : 00000000 00000040
00000010 : 000002E6 77760E8F
00000017 : 00040000 00000000
0000001B : 00000000 FEE00C00
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Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Wed, 10 May 2023 15:47:15 GMT

Hi, again. Sorry to bother you. I can't do what you ask. Could you please give me a hand? My board is an ASUS B660-A ROG Strix WiFi with the latest BIOS.

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

n_scott_pearson — Thu, 11 May 2023 03:18:31 GMT

MSR 1A2 is the Temperature Target MSR Your's has value is 00000000 0A641400. This indicates that Tjmax is 100c (0x64) but that an offset of 10 is being applied (meaning that throttling isn't going to happen until 110c (0x64+0x0A)). I will presume that the motherboard's BIOS is responsible for this (non-zero) offset - unless perhaps you are running XTU? I believe it also means that 0x0A will be added to all readings.

Ok, oddly enough, I interpret this as meaning that all readings from the DTS will be 10c higher than otherwise. Logic (a.k.a wishful thinking) would say that I must somehow be reading this backwards (i.e., readings will be 10c lower than expected) but I don't think so.

So, outcome, question: Why is this offset being applied and who is applying it?

...S

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Thu, 11 May 2023 04:40:05 GMT

Oh, i did it right then? Lol. I'm surprised. Hi! How are you? I don't know who is applying it. I had a 12400 and the temperatures were ok. With this CPU i'm having this offset temperature that you mention. What to do? I tried every option in BIOS, in fact i tried all settings to default. Maybe the CPU is applying the offset? I don't think so. Please let me know if there is something i can do. Thanks!!

EDIT: I'm not using Intel XTU.
EDIT 2: An option appeared in BIOS with this CPU. I can set the TJ Max to 90°C to avoid issues and i can put a +10°C offset in CoreTemp to see the correct temps too. What do you think?

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

n_scott_pearson — Fri, 12 May 2023 00:30:52 GMT

I wouldn't do that. What I would do is reset the BIOS to its default configuration and see if that removes the application of this offset.

...S

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Fri, 12 May 2023 02:49:52 GMT

Hi, i did it with no luck. What could it be? Should i try another board or CPU?

Here are my specs:
i5-13400
ASUS B660-A ROG Strix WiFi
4x8GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200MHz
Zotac 3060 Ti Twin Edge OC
Kingston Renegade 500GB
WD Blue SN550 1TB
Samsung EVO 860 1TB
Seasonic Focus GX-850
Corsair 275r Airflow
H115i RGB Pro XT
3x ID Cooling RGB 120mm

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

n_scott_pearson — Fri, 12 May 2023 16:36:47 GMT

Have you verified that this processor is actually supported by this board with this BIOS version? Have you verified that you are using the latest BIOS that they've made available?
...S

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Sat, 13 May 2023 05:57:35 GMT

Yes, all 13th gen CPUs are supported by this board since BIOS Rev 1620. I am also using the latest BIOS.

I don't know if this help, but i was using a 12400 with 0 issues.

EDIT: In fact, i only found ONE person with this exact same issue. A guy with a 12700K.
Here's the link: https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Faulty-12700k-thermal-sensor-temperatures-too-low/m-p/1385794

EDIT 2: I tried to downgrade my BIOS but it says that any BIOS released before the last one isn't a proper BIOS file. It's protected and i can't downgrade it.
Tomorrow, or next monday, i'll try to reach ASUS and told them that i have this issue. Don't know what to do at this point.
Maybe, they added a +10°C TJMax to this board with a BIOS update. I don't know.

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

n_scott_pearson — Sat, 13 May 2023 20:57:21 GMT

It is interesting that it is the processor upgrade process that results in this issue. This says to me that there is some artifact of the original processor being left in the BIOS. This is something that the motherboard vendor needs to resolve. Contact their support people for next-steps.
...S

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Sun, 14 May 2023 02:10:47 GMT

Even after updating to the latest BIOS with the 13400?

EDIT: I reached ASUS support. I think they put people to attend tech support that know less than i do. Hopeless.

EDIT 2: I downgraded to BIOS version 2015 (2022/10/19). No luck either.

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

n_scott_pearson — Sun, 14 May 2023 03:24:09 GMT

Yes. Updating (or downgrading) the BIOS doesn't necessarily eliminate any of the data stored in the flash. In fact, even resetting the BIOS configuration doesn't necessarily eliminate any of this data.

I am at a loss what to suggest next. Have those ASUS support people escalate the issue to their next level support.

...S

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Sun, 14 May 2023 03:53:25 GMT

Is this an issue to be concerned about? You told me an 10°C offset had been applied, but it isn't the real temp. My concern is the following: will i have any issues such as condensation or some other problem? The CPU has been working fine for a month. Thanks for all your help.

Re: i5-13400 running below ambient

galactica_phantom — Mon, 15 May 2023 19:04:15 GMT

It was the CPU. I tried another 13400 (but the F variant and a RPL one) and temps are fine now. Thanks for all your help and time. I really appreciate it!