topic Re: Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches in Mobile and Desktop Processors

i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:56:36 GMT

Hi,

I built a setup in April 2023 with :

- Intel Core i9-13900K

- Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero

- 2x32 GB Corsair Vengeance 6600 MHz

- Asus ROG 4090

- Asus ROG Thor 850 Watts

From the very beginning, I had sometimes BSODs, and several apps/games crashing very "reliably".

Even though the PC:

- Not overclocked (no XMP, so RAM is running at 4800 MHz)

- No Tweaks of any sort in the Bios / default values from Asus Bios.

- Windows 11 Pro 10.0.22621

- Windows / Drivers / Bios are up to date with latest versions as of today.

The tests :

- Prime95 : with smallest and small FFT (to only test CPU and CPU cache) -> gives FATAL ERROR (prime numbers errors) on some CPU cores after a few minutes.

- Cinebench R23 in single core : no problem, no crash during the 10min run

- Cinebench R23 in multi-core : crashes after 2 to 30 seconds systematically.

- GPU tests are fine, they complete with no crash (Furmark)

- Memtest86 : did several runs on the mem at 4800 and 6600 -> no errors, all tests PASS.

- a few games such as Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon Zero Dawn : almost systematically crash when launched.

A couple of days ago, I realized that it's probably the CPU:

- I use an app for 3D Printing called a "slicer" who prepares the file for 3D printing that would consistently crash on my Windows 11 setup during slicing (after 5 to 10 seconds max), but not on a virtual machine installed with VirtualBox (Windows 10)

- Somebody advised me to try to set the Affinity for the CPU Cores/Threads in Windows 11.

- Also, I found a lot of reports in forums/reddit about problems with i9-13900K...

Since then, when I set the Affinity of the apps for only a few cores:

- Bambu Studio slicing fine, no crash whatsoever if affinity set to 8 first (CPU0 to CPU7)

- Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon Zero Dawn : they both run fine when affinity set to 8 first (CPU0 to CPU7), but crash as soon as I change affinity back to all cores/threads.

- Cinebench multi-core : systematically crashes no matter what subset of cores/threads I set.

Weirdly enough, I tried the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool: it always passes, but I don't trust its results, since I've so many other apps/games crashing, and reports by people on the web...

So, I need help please with that, I can't trust my CPU even though I need my PC for work every day...

Intel SSU report attached.

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Alberto_R_Intel — Tue, 26 Sep 2023 16:53:08 GMT

LoloWiwi, Thank you for posting in the Intel® Communities Support.

We are sorry to hear about this issue and we will be more than glad to assist you with this matter.

For this scenario, it is important to mention that when using third-party applications such as the one you described, there could be miscalculations or misreadings and the results might not be that accurate when it comes to processor details

Our official tool and the one we rely on is the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool, it does an overall test on the unit, and if it passes the test, it means it is working properly. You mentioned that the processor passed the test, which is great since based on those results, we can rule out a possible hardware issue with the unit.

The memory RAM seems to be fully compatible with the processor since the unit supports:

Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s

Up to DDR4 3200 MT/s

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/230496.html

Still, as a troubleshooting step, please test one memory stick at a time on each memory slot in order to rule out a possible hardware problem with the sticks or with the memory DIMMs on the board.

When it comes to games crashing, since you are using a video card, the video card itself is actually the one that handles all the graphics tasks on your system. As an option, you can remove the video card, use just the integrated graphics controller only, and test the games to verify if the behavior is the same. Keeping in mind, that the performance while running games will depend on the game specifications and your whole hardware configuration. Games are usually GPU intensive, which is why we recommend to use a video card as you are currently doing so and also to verify the game requirements to make sure your platform complies with them.

The same recommendation is also provided for the 3D Printing "Slicer" since it might be using a lot of resources from the machine which will cause the crashing of the computer. Please verify the system requirements with the manufacturer of the 3D printer to confirm if your device fully supports it.

Even though you mentioned that the BIOS is up to date, still we recommend to get in contact directly with ASUS support just to make sure that the latest BIOS version is currently installed and if they suggest any BIOS settings that might improve the performance of the system. We always advise to use the PC with under the stock configurations with the default BIOS settings:

https://www.asus.com/support/

Once you get the chance, please let us know the results of trying the suggestions above.

Any questions, please let me know.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Wed, 27 Sep 2023 17:46:27 GMT

Hi Albert R.

Thanks for your feedback.

My feedback :

BIOS: up to date (checked with Asus support) with version 1303 (2023/08/25)

Memory tests: I've already tested the 2 sticks 5 times with memtest86 (4 passes each time, wich is a total of about 20 hours under stress) -> all tests PASS.

--> Which rules out a problem with memory

GPU: already ran Furmark benches

--> no crashes whatsoever with GPU

Cinebench R23:
- When run in "CPU (Single Core): success
- When run in "CPU (Multi-core)": with all cores, it crashes right away, when run on CPU0,1,2,3, it crashes after 1min, when run on CPU2,3 -> success

--> This indicates a problem with at least one of the CPU cores

Even more so : when I run Cinebench R23 with Nvidia GPU unplugged (so, only the Intel UHD Graphics 770) -> crash in multicore as previous (screen cap that proves that attached)

--> This definitely proves that there the problem is not linked to the Nvidia GPU

3D slicing softwares: they don't use GPU, only CPU. Plus, when I set the affinity to only use CPU0 to CPU4 for example, slicing works.

--> This indicates a problem with the CPU

3D slicing softwares : they only use CPU parallelization such as: tbb::parallel_for(tbb::blocked_range<int>(0, int(m_objects.size())), [this, need_slicing_objects](const tbb::blocked_range<int>& range) { for (int i = range.begin(); i < range.end(); i++) { PrintObject* obj = m_objects[i]; if (need_slicing_objects.count(obj) != 0) { obj->generate_support_material(); } else { if (obj->set_started(posSupportMaterial)) obj->set_done(posSupportMaterial); } } } );

--> This indicates a problem with the CPU

Test pass with Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool: it's not a proof, since the test is running in less than 5 minutes, so it's a clear indication that this test is not reliable in asserting that the CPU is not faulty (doesn't test the CPU under load for long enough).

prime95 with tests on smallest FFT (does not use RAM, only CPU and CPU cache): indicates a FATAL ERROR with one of the CPU cores (see attached screen cap in my initial post)

-> This indicates a problem with the CPU

Games : as already explained, if I restrict the number of cores being used to 4 or 8 -> games run without crashes. As soon as I set affinity to all CPUs (0 to 31) -> systematic crash upon startup

--> This indicates a problem with the CPU

And many posts and discussions on the web that indicate that it’s not unheard of that some i9-13900K have issues on some cores and people could RMA their CPU:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/15mflva/13900k_problems_when_using_multiple_cores/

“However I got the same model (i.e. another i9-13900K) for the meantime and none of these issues, crashes or CRC errors occured since then. That cpu was faulty. Hope I get my money back.”

https://www.elevenforum.com/t/new-intel-i9-developed-faulty-cores-anyone-else-have-this.16361/

“by process of elimination I've discovered that cores 8 and 9 are faulty”

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/13iwn7f/random_app_game_crashes_with_13900k/

“It was the CPU. Many apps would suffer crashes with exception code=C0000005 , since I've received the RMA from Intel I have not had a single crash since.”

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Wed, 27 Sep 2023 19:06:03 GMT

Some other feedbacks on problems with i9-13900K on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/13iwn7f/random_app_game_crashes_with_13900k/

“I’ve now replaced a 2nd 13900k from near identical issues to the previous failing one i mentioned earlier. Would get discord and chrome crashes, game crashes, issues with windows and WHEA 19 processor core errors.

One chip was ran at stock and the other chip that just failed had a healthy stable under volt for 3 months and then even when runnng it back at stock, same issues until lowered the clock speeds from stock.

Not happy, something seems to be up with the i9, so many people having similar issues and RMAING."

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/13iwn7f/random_app_game_crashes_with_13900k/

"I’ve made the tough call to go down to the i7 now and cross my fingers it never happens again. So far since replacing the cpu again for the 3rd time issues are gone…”

Somebody who RMAed his i9-13900K -> no problem with the replacement CPU:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PcBuild/comments/14scmgm/trouble_applying_intel_xtu_settings_in_bios/

“in this case I don't really understand why they selling it as overclocking cpu if you need underclocking it to get it at least okay”

Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Alberto_R_Intel — Wed, 27 Sep 2023 19:35:16 GMT

Hi LoloWiwi, You are very welcome, thank you very much for sharing that information.

Even though it seems there could be a problem with the Intel® processor itself, taking into consideration that you are using an ASUS motherboard, we actually have a series of troubleshooting steps for you to attempt in order to be completely sure that in fact there is a hardware issue with the unit.

Please try the following steps:

-Install XTU, run AVX2 test, and check if the processor passed that test, if it fails, please change the next BIOS settings:

Advanced (F7)

AI Tweaker

SVID Behavior: Change to “Intel’s Fail Safe”

-Reboot the OS and run XTU test again in order to confirm if the unit passed the AVX2 test

-Run the games as well and see if the issue happens again

Once you get the opportunity, please let us know the outcome.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:17:03 GMT

Hi Alberto,

Thanks for your explanation and the step by step.
I'll do what you mention and will get back to you with the outcome.

Laurent

Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Alberto_R_Intel — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 13:40:54 GMT

Hi LoloWiwi, Thank you very much for your response.

Perfect, take your time, go ahead and run the tests and let us know the results once you get the possibility.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 18:51:11 GMT

Hi Alberto,

I installed XTU, rebooted upon request.
When I try to start it, I get the following message : "Unable to start Intel Extreme Tuning Utility because of a system incompatibility (Windows VBS) and features that enable VBS if UVP is not enabled in BIOS".

Shall I enable UVP in BIOS? I prefer to ask before doing anything that might be harmful (note: BIOS is up to date with latest version, as well as Windows)

Thanks

Laurent

Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Alberto_R_Intel — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:14:16 GMT

Hi LoloWiwi, Thank you very much for sharing those updates.

Perfect, as you mentioned, it is always recommended to confirm if the changes that will be done to the computer might affect it, especially if those are related to BIOS settings.

To answer your question, yes, you can go ahead and enable UVP in the BIOS. Please verify the link below since it will provide additional aspects about this subject:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000093813/processors/processor-utilities-and-programs.html

We will be waiting for your response.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 22:49:58 GMT

Hi Alberto,

So, first and foremost : THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

I did what you advised (changing "SVID Behavior" in BIOS from "auto" to "Intel's fail safe", and every app/bench/game that used to crash is now stable!

- Cinebench R23 : could go through a full 10 mn bench in multicore without a glitch

- All 3D slicing apps (and others) : same, slicing is going through without crashing

- Games (Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon Zero Dawn): both run fine.

If I may, 2 last questions:

- Would you have some pointers about what this BIOS "SVID Behavior" parameter is?

- Should I run Inter XTU AVX2 for a few hours just to ensure full stability?

A little more details :

- Before changing SVID Behavior in Bios : Intel XTU AVX2 stress test would crash after a few seconds

- After change : Intel XTU AVX2 stress test (except for Power and Thermal throttling, which I guess is normal given it's running a stress test)

Thanks again for your help,

Laurent

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 23:00:23 GMT

Just adding a screen cap in case somebody experience the same issue and is searching for where is the parameter in Asus Bios :

Thanks again Alberto!

You can't image how relieved I am, thanks to you (in the last 6 months, my setup was far from being stable, and I lost countless hours testing components one after another and trying to find a solution...).

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Aryan-31 — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:27:02 GMT

I am not a intel employee.

As I see your problem, to me this seems to be a defective silicon.

Any cpu should be able to function absolutely perfectly under any load at absolute stock settings(XMP eneabled) in Bios if correct Ram and motherboard chipset is used.

What is your Vcore voltage now at the above settings with SVID at Intel Fail safe.

Further More If SVID is set at Intel Fail safe the cpu will burn out within 3 yrs as its just pushing high voltage to stabilise the defective cores

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 11:01:15 GMT

Hi Aryan,

Thanks for your advice, I'm not at all into overclocking or all the finesses of motherboard/cpu parameters tweaking (just want a reliable and powerful setup for my day to day work), so your insight is very valuable to me

VCore voltage: Sorry, I'm a bit lost into all the HWiNFO values, there are hundreds...
Is it the following in HWiNFO 64 :

- Core VIDs? (min=0.746V, max= 1.589V)?

- Or the one under the MB info: Vcore (min=0.728V, max=1483V)?

At the moment, I'm not running any computing intensive tasks.

Thanks

Laurent

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Aryan-31 — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:07:08 GMT

in the 2nd pic, thats VCore but give me the bios Vcore reading

From pic, 1.421V is way too much for idle condition.

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:15:24 GMT

OK, thanks.
What should be a good min/max range under idle/simple tasks (web browsing, editing documents) and heavy load tasks (video generation, parallel tasks such as 3D rendering, etc.) ?

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

Aryan-31 — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:23 GMT

idle around <1V
Full load 3.6V-1.4V
Max voltage: 1.4V such that processor lasts for 6yrs and runs moderately cool enough

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:19:56 GMT

Thanks Aryan for your piece of advice.

At this point, I decided to bring this to r/intel on Reddit to get broader feedback and know what to do next :

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/16vp5kn/i913900k_instability_crashes_and_svid_behavior/

Re: Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

LoloWiwi — Sun, 01 Oct 2023 09:27:42 GMT

Hi Alberto,

Can you provide me with a follow up, please ?
Since SVID Behavior change, my PC is stable.
But you mentioned that the CPU might be faulty, and I got answers further in this thread mentioning that I shouldn't have such issues with default BIOS parameters.

At which point do you have a confirmation that my i9-13900K is faulty and RMA is the solution ?

Thanks for your help,
Laurent

Re:i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

DeividA_Intel — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 23:00:19 GMT

Hello LoloWiwi,

Thanks for all the information provided. You mentioned that you opened a Reddit post, I would like to know if you would like to close this thread or continue with the support.

If you want to continue, please run and attach the report from the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/15951/intel-processor-diagnostic-tool.html

Regards,

Deivid A.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Re: i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

seitam — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 01:19:25 GMT

Hello @LoloWiwi

I've been reading recent posts related to 13900K and 13900KF trying to figure out any fixes for the problems I have and thank god I found your post.

Many apps are crashing constantly.. cannot play any game (rip cyberpunk, cant even launch), for other games max gameplay is 10 minutes. All apps crash - spotify, discord, even developer tools like vscode or intellij.

Even now I have to write this reply using Notepad because I have no time to reply because of contant crash. Some Tabs from Firefox crashes constantly for some sites, and this is one of them (I tried Edge, same errors).

I have tested using memtest and no errors found.

I found some "WORKAROUNDS" for specific apps, i.e. Path of Exile - this is game and there are many people complaining about crashes, all of them uses high end CPU and the fix is set the Affinity fo this specific app to use Efficiency cores only (cores from 16 to 31 for I9-13900) - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3408111/page/5#p25062465

Looks like I am the one of the unlucky guys... should I open a new thread? Or can join you here? Can any mod guide me? Do I need to reach RMA?