topic Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors in Mobile and Desktop Processors

July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Thomas_Hannaford — Wed, 25 Sep 2024 17:30:50 GMT

*9/25/24 - Please go to the following link for the latest updates: Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processor Vmin Instability Issue Root Cause*

*Update 8/26 clarifying support guidance for Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop tray CPU purchases*

*Update 7/29 regarding customer support process guidance (included below as well): https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Clarification-Update-on-Intel-Core-13th-14th-Gen-Desktop/m-p/1618462

Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making sure all customers who have or are currently experiencing instability symptoms on their 13th and/or 14th Gen desktop processors are supported in the exchange process.

To help streamline the support process, Intel's guidance is as follows:

For users who purchased 13th/14th Gen-powered desktop systems from OEM/System Integrator - please reach out to your system vendor's customer support team for further assistance.
For users who purchased boxed 13th/14th Gen desktop processors - please reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.
For users who purchased tray 13th/14th Gen desktop processors - please reach out to your place of purchase for further assistance.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

DaPoets — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 19:24:46 GMT

Looking forward to testing this update with various Motherboard, CPU, & RAM configurations.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

zzetta — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 19:43:57 GMT

LOL so it was after all a microcode issue haha. Good thing you managed to fix it!!

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

lucasholt — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 21:28:20 GMT

So what is the guidance for folks who own one of these processors until these updates are available? Should we do anything beyond the guidance from June?

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

MrAgapiGCarlos — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 21:38:25 GMT

Good news. Btw i need a favor intel... please...

Send a msg to aorus gigabyte, none of the 600 series has bios since Dec2023 and has cero reply or comments on it.

I do not have those cpus for now, still use my old 12th. But i will keep the eye and push info to the users for this asap on the discord that i help and my comunity.

I will leave the pro take over maybe i get one when i can.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Mornnb — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 22:54:40 GMT

This leaves many questions open - did this microcode overvolting cause degradation or merely instability? Was it for vcore, uncore or SA? What can I manually adjust to limit it while waiting for the update?

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

pressed_for_time — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 23:12:00 GMT

It's unfortunate about Gigabyte and the lack of BIOS updates. I can confirm that ASUS is updating its 600 boards on a similar schedule to the 700 boards. For example, ASUS 600 boards received the most recent BIOS update on July 15, this is the one that has the latest microcode 0x125.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Sid9911199 — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 23:41:36 GMT

How does a bad microcode affect only(a certain number of same chips to fail).. seems like a deeper mistake in the architecture or manufacturing quality control here which is being covered up..what about those 13,14 gen chips that have fixed factory set default voltages and powers that are also failing..

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

pressed_for_time — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 23:46:58 GMT

The only connection I have with Intel is that I am a user of 14th gen hardware.

As far as I can see Intel have been completely open about the issues with instability affecting some 13th and 14th gen K/KF/KS processors. As a result of the investigations carried out into this a fault with eTVB (Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost) was discovered and corrected with the latest microcode update 0x125. As noted above, a further microcode update should be available in August to deal with the remaining issue.

Speculating that it is anything else is just that speculation. I am aware that one of the YouTubers has published a video claiming that there could be a manufacturing defect related to "Oxidation" of copper through silicon vias. A member of Intel staff has commented on this on Reddit. What they said was "...We can confirm that the via Oxidation manufacturing issue affected some early Intel Core 13th Gen desktop processors. However, the issue was root caused and addressed with manufacturing improvements and screens in 2023. We have also looked at it from the instability reports on Intel Core 13th Gen desktop processors and the analysis to-date has determined that only a small number of instability reports can be connected to the manufacturing issue".

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

JeremieF — Mon, 22 Jul 2024 23:56:25 GMT

Thank you for finally acknowledging the manufacturing defect. While the microcode patch is a positive step towards resolving instability issues, I have some concerns that I would like to raise.

I am not an engineer, but I believe it is important to consider the potential long-term effects of this voltage issue. Elevated operating voltages can cause significant stress on the CPU, potentially leading to electromigration and irreversible damage that may not be obvious under use. Even if the microcode patch effectively corrects the voltage regulation, the CPUs that have been exposed to these higher voltages may have already suffered from some level of degradation.

My primary concern is that the affected CPUs may now have a shorter lifespan than initially expected. While the patch might prolong their life beyond the warranty period, these CPUs could still die prematurely or at least sooner than users might anticipate based on their experience with previous generations.

I would appreciate it if Intel could provide more detailed information on the potential long-term impacts of this issue and any steps being taken to address them. Additionally, for those of us who have received replacement CPUs, it would be helpful to understand what measures are being implemented to ensure these units have not been compromised by the elevated voltages.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to any additional insights or assurances Intel can provide regarding the long-term reliability of the affected processors.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Vlad11 — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 00:14:54 GMT

No, they have not been completely open at all. That's why people are still speculating. They didn't explain exactly what is going on. They just said incorrect elevated voltages requested by the CPU microcode are the root cause. They didn't describe exactly which voltages they are talking about, and how exactly the elevated voltages caused the instability issue.

In particular, they didn't say if the elevated voltages caused irreversible degradation of the CPU, which in turn caused the stability issues. They didn't say if fixing the microcode will make the affected CPUs stable again, or if the fix just prevents further degradation of the CPU. They didn't say if the microcode update will reduce performance to restore stability.

It's very likely that there is permanent damage to the CPUs exposed to the excessive voltage. Even CPUs that are still stable now may have had their life significantly reduced already. My CPU is unstable, it became unstable after just a couple of months of use, and I had to reduce its maximum frequency repeatedly, every 3-4 months, to keep it stable. It's very likely that it has been permanently damaged by this issue, and it might have been affected by the oxidation issue too, and it will probably have to be replaced.

Even the oxidation question has only been answered on reddit after somebody asked, instead of adding this information here from the beginning. I mean, I appreciate we got some information, but considering the scale of the issues its less than I expected.

For the oxidation issue for example, we don't have the exact time range for the products affected, or other ways to identify if we are affected or not. I bought my CPU in December 2022, so since the oxidation issue was fixed in 2023, I'm almost certainly affected.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

MrAgapiGCarlos — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 00:34:43 GMT

sadly that was the board that was available on time that day 1 plus years ago. but i order replacement but i need to wait until work finish in 10 days to swap those out and put it on a bin. let see if intel see this and pressure them since intel will have to cover this and has to be asap.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

BFeely — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 02:40:51 GMT

I RMAed my last 13900K way back early last year because one of the cores was completely broken. When I sent back the broken processor I had at that point recommended Intel analyze what had gone wrong, especially since it was passing the official diagnostic tool and only failing on third party stress tests. They just said they'd destroy it. Unfortunately, if they had followed through that meant they lost out on some very early warning signs.

My current 13900K has shown some signs of degradation, at first requiring limiting of power to prevent instability but when the motherboard showed signs of failure and had to be replaced, I was able to restore stability with the replacement motherboard's Intel Default Settings firmware.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

botmanprocessor — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 02:51:17 GMT

I too had to RMA a 14900KS because of a bad core. I had problems as soon as I installed it, so it wasn't a degradation thing. My replacement has been solid since I got it a week ago. Hope it doesn't degrade over time in any way. After keeping an eye on the news about the 13/14th gen stuff, its nice to see some sort of statement from Intel and that a fix is on its way. But, as another poster pointed out, it leaves a few questions to be answered.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

BFeely — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 02:56:10 GMT

Definitely stay up to date on BIOS updates, and if you have a Z690 motherboard that stopped getting updates consider replacing it with a Z790 to get access to the "Intel Default Settings" mode. If you stay on the Z690, research the parameters and manually set them in the BIOS to help stability.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

RP369 — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 03:49:04 GMT

Does this issue cane be contained with 800 series motherboards ?

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

BFeely — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 05:24:25 GMT

If you're thinking like Z890 isn't that for Arrow Lake?

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

ysk_PLUZ — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 06:47:00 GMT

I have already RMA'd 14000KS twice.
In both cases, symptoms appeared within about two weeks.
The damage should accumulate by mid-August. Even if microcode solves the problem, it's still a ticking time bomb.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Xav1erSue — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 07:28:47 GMT

Does the voltage increase caused by the microcode bug refer to a situation where the actual operating voltage is higher than the CPU's working voltage (including overclocking voltage)?

Will fixing the microcode bug result in a decrease in the original CPU core frequency? The fundamental issue is whether this fix can truly solve the problem or if it is simply a limitation on the core frequency. The latter is clearly unreasonable.

Re: July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Amosf — Tue, 23 Jul 2024 07:57:02 GMT

I noticed that the instability of the cpu does not come from the voltage. Myself i own the new 14600kf and yes the voltages are a bit high, i undervolted it from 1.295 to 1.150 volts in boost but still had the instability issues. I noticed that the cpu became unstable because of the wattage settings in the mother boards. Those are sett on unlimited. I manually put it on the recommended wattage that is 181 watt on max and the issues are gone. Stable and cool!