topic Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver? in Rapid Storage Technology

Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Keelung — Mon, 08 Jan 2024 07:52:01 GMT

Hi,

If I enable VMD in BIOS, then all storages, both SATA and NVME, are not accessable by OS without loading RST driver for Windows (Linux support still missing in 2024).

The Question is, why Intel need to block all Non-RAID drivers ?

It's not reasonable, I think.

So, I want to figure out the reason.

Thanks!

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

n_scott_pearson — Mon, 08 Jan 2024 20:59:56 GMT

I am unsure exactly what you mean by 'all non-RAID drivers', but let's carry on.

The VMD engine supports both NVMe and SATA drives being utilized in RAID arrays. When the engine is enabled, it takes over control of the interfaces for all of these devices (i.e., NVMe-based SSDs and Chipset SATA controller-based SATA drives. A UEFI driver in the BIOS provides access to the RAID volumes (for the purpose of boot support) and the Windows-based driver provides access to these volumes at runtime. Drives that are not used in RAID arrays are supported as they would be otherwise, albeit supported by an Intel Storage Driver instead of the Microsoft storage driver or any other vendor-supplied NVMe driver.

Admittedly, this control does place a burden on drive manufacturers who provide their own tools for drive management, in that they must support Intel's driver interface (which I believe is still based upon the CSMI specification???) if they wish to tunnel down to the physical drives. A long time ago, I open-sourced an app for S.M.A.R.T. status/attribute display that showed how to use this CSMI interface to tunnel through RAID arrays and access physical drive data. I am sure this code is pretty stale now (I known that it didn't encompass NVMe-based drives; they didn't exist back then), but I would think still a good intro for CSMI for any who are interested.

Linux support is indeed still missing - and I would think will *stay* missing - so long as Linux Desktop continues to garner an insignificant portion (a *pitiful* 3.08% currently; ChromeOS has 4.15%) of the desktop TAM. ROI is king. When only limited resources are available, you aim your resources where the bulk of the market is going.

Just my opinion,

...S

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Keelung — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:58:04 GMT

Hi @n_scott_pearson

Thanks for your info in details!

Maybe I should use Disk instead of Driver in my "All Non-RAID drivers" (as in red block in following snapshot)

When the engine is enabled, it takes over control of the interfaces for all of these devices

RST should pass-throught Non-RAID disks to OS but takes over control of all disks.

On my HP Z2 G9 Tower PC, when I enabled VMD in BIOS, then even no RAID volume created, I cannot install Windows 10 without loading RAID driver. I'm installing OS into a Non-RAID disk, why the RAID driver is required?

On my old PC, i7-8700 CPU installed, I can still access Non-RAID disks in Windows PE even no RAID driver loaded.

But on my New PC, i9-13900K installed, I cannot access any Non-RAID disks in Windows PE if no RAID driver loaded.

So, new RST firmware blocked accessing of Non-RAID disks -- both SATA and NVME!

For the RST Linux support, it make me think about another question: Why in most Linux distributions ISO images use AMD64 instead of x86_64 ? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/53415/why-are-64-bit-distros-often-called-amd64

Seems Intel don't want to support Linux as before.

Non-RAID Drivers are unaccessalbe

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Kiriakos-GR — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:17:25 GMT

I am trying to be polite, because most of the questions they do not have enough gravity.

Even when there is present a RAID array, for booting to OS from it or not, the RAID drive it must be loaded.

At windows installation you simple select the appropriate Boot partition, it could be the RAID-Array or a single drive.

Read carefully the User manual of your motherboard.

Your new motherboard it might have configuration limitations.

If you are unable to help your self with all this documentation, then ask ask help from a professional freelancer computers builder.

And pay the man.

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Keelung — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:48:42 GMT

I can cover the OS installation and loading RST driver which downloaded from HP.

The issue is, I cannot backup my OS disk in Windows PE. And most of PE have no RAID driver selection while booting.

Here is my usage scene:

HP Z2 G9 has three M.2 slots and four SATA interfaces.

I install Windows on SSD1 and create RAID1 volume on SSD2 and SSD3.

I restore/backup Windows monthly, SSD1 disk here.

But after booting into PE from USB disk, ALL local disks are gone. All local disks, RAID / Non-RAID, are not shown in PE.

So, is there anything wrong I've done? I just want to backup my Non-RAID disk.

The ROOT CAUSE is, RST blocked all Non-RAID disks.

But why? why RST need to block all Non-RAID disks?

I think there is no necessary to block all Non-RAID disks.

That's why I post this thread here.

P.S. Blocking all Non-RAID disks isn't a polite thing to end users.

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Kiriakos-GR — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:21:11 GMT

Windows PE, with out addition of chip-set drivers its a powerless piece of software.

You need to buy a better backup software.

Even the old Norton Ghost 15, after be installed, this is able to make special boot CD for the specific motherboard (this including chip-set drivers along LAN card driver) so the user to be able to restore local HDD image or from a remote location.

INTEL has nothing to do with your problems, move on and BUY a better Backup Software.

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Keelung — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 09:38:46 GMT

@Kiriakos-GR wrote:
INTEL has nothing to do with your problems, move on and BUY a better Backup Software.

I don't think so.

INTEL's new RST blocked my Non-RAID disks. The old RST has no this issue.

There is nothing to do with buying or not buying, even a good or bad backup software.

Again:

The ROOT CAUSE is, RST blocked all Non-RAID disks.

But why? why RST need to block all Non-RAID disks?

I think there is no necessary to block all Non-RAID disks.

That's why I post this thread here

I want to know the reason here.

So, please just tell me the reason directly.

Thanks!

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

n_scott_pearson — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:44:54 GMT

It matters not. This is the way that VMD works and I doubt it is going to change.

RST needs to take over the interfaces for all M.2 SSDs in order to be able to support RAID with any combination of these SSDs (this wasn't a problem in your old system because RST then only had support for chipset-connected M.2 drives). RST offers a Storage Driver that is equal in performance to that provided by Microsoft, so there is no necessity to 'pass-thru' drive IRPs.

WinPE has the ability to have drivers injected into it, so I don't see why you don't simply do this. There are multiple treatise on how to do so out there. Just google "how to inject drivers into WinPE".

...S

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

Keelung — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:53:32 GMT

@n_scott_pearson wrote:
RST needs to take over the interfaces for all M.2 SSDs in order to be able to support RAID with any combination of these SSDs

RAID is created/deleted statically but dynamically, even conside modifying dynamically, the UI can tip users with invalid combinations.

Another question: I'm using SSDs to create a RAID array, why RST need to block HDDs?

Re: Why RST blocked all Non-RAID driver?

n_scott_pearson — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 22:06:05 GMT

I have no idea what you are trying to say with your first sentence. Regarding invalid combinations (i.e. trying to create a RAID array using a mix of NVMe and SATA devices, which isn't supported AFAIK) and the UI, I agree; just saying that there is no array possible is not very user-friendly; it should indicate why this is the case. Intel Customer Support should pass this comment along to the RST developers.

I am not going to argue the issue with you. If you want to use the VMD engine to support RAID, you enable it and you use it to access all of your devices. No pick and choose. All of your devices. If you don't like it, don't use the feature; it's that simple.

...S

P.S. I am a volunteer here. My opinions are my own. I do not represent Intel.