topic Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation. in Wireless

CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 22:50:24 GMT

We are seeing multiple complaints of people upgrading from 9560 (CNVio) to the AX201 (CNVio2) and having issues, often completely unbootable systems. The confusion comes from Intel's own documents regarding compatibility. If you follow the support links for both the 9560 and AX201, both pages lead to the same support doc listing both products:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-io/wireless-networking.html

The supposition so far (because we can't actually look it up) is that CNVio2 and CNVio are not actually compatible and that CNVio2 only works on gen 10 laptop CPUs. I will be testing this myself but it would be great if Intel themselves could clarify the issue.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

n_scott_pearson — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 00:57:21 GMT

I would love to hear a summary explanation of this myself.

...S

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

AdrianM_Intel — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:52:24 GMT

Hello BHarr8,

Thank you for posting on the Intel® Communities.

In regards to your questions keep in mind that you are trying to complete a wireless integration and it is better to validate this kind of actions in regards to compatibility with the OEM, in addition, the CNVI adapters have to be checked with other hardware components, the OEM will tell based on the CPU, OS, and other items the best wifi H/W solution.

This link has a comparison between AX 200 and AX-201 https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?productIds=189347,130293

Regards,

Adrian M.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:20:57 GMT

You are answering a question I did not ask. I have no wireless card and no device I am installing one into.

I am asking directly and specifically....

What are the differences between CNVio and CNVio2?

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:37:47 GMT

I made some images to better illustrate my question.

First is the link to the AC 9560:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/99446/intel-wireless-ac-9560.html

Next is the link to the AX201:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/130293/intel-wi-fi-6-ax201.html

Intel has very specifically delineated the interface as a CNVio and CNVio2. <- note the '2'.

There seems to be no public documentation delineating these two interfaces yet there clearly seems to be one.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

AdrianM_Intel — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 06:03:42 GMT

Hello BHarr8,

Thank you for the clarification.

Let me look into it to better assist you with your question.

Regards,

Adrian M.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

AdrianM_Intel — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 04:09:08 GMT

Hello BHarr8,

I would like to update the thread.

The information we have available about AX201 can be found on the following link:

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/wi-fi-6-ax201-module-brief.pdf

In case you need the electronic information differences our recommendation is to contact the OEM of the motherboard.

If you are designing or building a customized system, we recommend you to visit our Intel Resource & Design Center.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/design/resource-design-center.html

Regards,

Adrian M.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 02:33:35 GMT

It seems we are still not on the same page.

Lets say for example I asked what the difference between USB C and thunderbolt 3 are. You could explain the differences and in fact there is a lot of information online about these differences:

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/difference-between-usb-c-and-thunderbolt-3

Now, I am asking for a similar description of difference between CVNio and CNVio2 . What you plug into these sockets is a different question and one that I am not asking.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

Wanner_G_Intel — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 03:44:02 GMT

Hello BHarr8,

In this scenario, our recommendation is that you visit the Resource & Design Center to obtain more information.

Regards,

Wanner G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 02:24:02 GMT

Since Intel and Intel's documentation was clearly not going to explain the compatibility I decided to test and research this myself, here are my findings.

If you have a 8th or 9th gen mobile CPU and CNVio interface you cannot install the AX201 as it is incompatible. This incompatibility manifests in a complete inability to power on (confirmed on multiple systems). This wont be a failure to post issue, the system will literally ignore that you pressed the power button. Fortunately this is temporary as remove the card returns the system to normal.

If you have a 10th gen mobile CPU and CNVio (actually CNVio2) interface it is likely that you already have the AX201 installed (or other X gen wireless card).

In the end if you have laptop with a CNVio interface you likely already have the best wireless card that is compatible with your system.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 02:28:20 GMT

I suspect that 8th and 9th gen mobile CPUs expect certain functionality to be offloaded from the wireless cars over CNVio to the CPU while 10th gen mobile CPUs have a different group of functionality offloaded over CNVio2 to the CPU.

Intel can confirm this with official documentation if they want, but I suspect that the extra sales due to people expecting compatibility will get in the way.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

sega1263 — Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:43:03 GMT

That is rediculas because Intel did this kind of trick with modules,lot of laptops stuck up in past ,but laptops is just 1year old.

OEM has no reply,Intel has no reply as well, what can be done to upgrade WIFi 5 to 6 with devices build on AC9560 module.

Now what all of Us in the world who has ac9560 need to do to upgrade it WiFi6????

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 20:30:43 GMT

It really sucks that they pulled this.

I have 3 Asus Vivobook Pro laptops that I maintain and all of them were upgraded to AX200 without issue. These are 8th gen Intel laptops.

My 9th gen MSI P75 Creator cannot be upgraded to AX201 due to the incompatibility between CNVio and CNVio2. Intel's choice to use a proprietary and generation locked interface is forcing anyone on CNVio to literally buy an entire new device if they want AX wireless.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

n_scott_pearson — Mon, 10 Jun 2024 17:50:06 GMT

Technologies have to move forward and future interface requirements cannot always be foreseen. I am unsure that the issue is that is preventing the AX200 module from being used in these CNVIO-supporting slots, but, until someone from Intel tells me otherwise (no, I don't want to hear your options), I am going to believe that this is the fault of the BIOS on these motherboards. If this is the case, this doesn't mean that Intel is completely innocent; they should be providing the guidance for BIOS implementation, after all.

...S

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 01:42:35 GMT

Tell me about PCIe gen 1, 2, 3, and 4 Scott and while you are at it tell me about SATA I, II and III.

When you care about consumers, generation after generation maintains compatibility.

This was a choice made to ensure the purchase a new CPU in the form of a new device.

I mean, I get it. I am spending $15 on AX200 cards which BTW, are Intel hardware and are compatible with pretty much anything with a 2230 M.2 port.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

Eltu — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 09:21:24 GMT

Hello @BHarr8

I think the issue you have is related to hardware whitelist in HP & Lenovo's BIOSes. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with Intel and in order to use different hardware this whitelist needs to be altered (which of course is not supported by OEM).

Best regards,
Kuba

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:42:46 GMT

@Eltu

We have already confirmed this to be OEM agnostic. It does not mater what CNVio laptop you put a CNVio2 card into the result is the same. The power button does not respond to being pressed. This by definition cannot be a BIOS whilist/blacklist issue as the system never posts thus never even checks hardware. This is an electrical incompatibility that trips some kind of power on fail-safe.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

BHarr8 — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:48:09 GMT

You can see the consistent issue if you search for these specific keywords:

https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22AX201%22+%22boot%22+%22forum%22&oq=%22AX201%22+%22boot%22+%22forum%22

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

TheSqueege — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 04:13:16 GMT

Thank you for doing this, I wish my money was going to you instead of intel. I got intel customer support staff on the live chat about this topic and they could not and would not give me a straight answer. They kept saying check for motherboard compatibility. Meanwhile the motherboard manufacturer says it's between the Module and the CPU having nothing to do with the motherboard aside from slot configuration. I am having exactly the same problem on my Z390A-Pro and i5 9600KF, once the AX201NGW is plugged in the computer won't make a sound like its dead or something. After module removal the computer works like normal. I even saw a post where the description of the module claims a 10th generation CPU is required however I wasn't sure if it was true until now.

Re: CNVio VS CNVio2 documentation.

sega1263 — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 16:30:49 GMT

Make compare module slot contacts ,U will see on ax201 one contact absent on one side,compare to AC 9560 that might be a reason why laptop not booting ,due too inbuild protection .

I agree that is fail of some motherboard makers of particular models of laptops, not all of tham having that issue independ of processor generation.