eye strain

[CNeub]

hello,

I have a Notebook with Intel Core i7 4710 - Intel Graphics 4600 and external Nvidia Gforce GTX 850M for about 2 weeks now. I connect the Notebook on two different places per HDMI with nearly three year old lg monitors. With my old Notebook (Intel Core2Duo and Nvidia Gforce 9500GT) I had not any problems with this two monitors. However when I connect one of the two monitors with my new Notebook I get eye strain and headache. Of course I use the right resolution FullHD and tried out different brigthness and contrast adjustments in intel graphic properties. OS is Windows 7 Prof x64 and the newest drivers are installed. Version:15.33.22.64.3621

Nearly two months ago I purchased an other Notebook with Intel Core i7 4700MQ - Intel Graphics 4600 and Nvidia Gforce GT755 M. I had the same problem there and so I sent it back, because I thought that the Notebook has an defect. I tried out Windows 7 and Windows 8 and had the same eye problems in the two different OS.Now I do not really know what the problem exactly is, because I have these problems with two different Notebooks on two different external LG Monitors and the integrated Displays of the Notebooks. But I thinkt the problem is the Intel HD 4600. Maybe that there is something wrong with the driver.Do you have any ideas about this? Couse I can't purchase and send back new Notebooks all the time.

Sorry for my bad english

[jve]

yes, i understand that. however, i don't have problems with pc or monitors, just laptops. i need a functional laptop that doesn't cause eyestrain and since i work as a stage designer, i need color 😕

however, i find onyx a really interesting find for reading when traveling and some sketching it's on my to buy list

curious to hear your impressions on the monitor

best,

janja

[PSobc2]

Kray_62

Any update with investigation regarding AC Power influence for eyestrain?

[BYard2]

I was forced to resign from 2 jobs because my lenovo X1 carbon with intel graphics caused me such severe health issues I was no longer able to work. I appreciate that intel is making an attempt to correct the issue, but feel that the severity of the problem is being drastically underestimated. My MRI shows damage to the frontal cortex consistent with trauma caused by numerous sub-clinical seizures. rather than asking people who are suffering from the effects of the flicker caused by temporal dithering to use themselves as test subjects, would it not be easier to use the research the military has done to intentionally cause harm with flickering light implemented in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_Incapacitator LED Incapacitator - Wikipedia and work backwards to ensure the driver does not stimulate the brain via entrainment is ways that are physiologically harmful?

[MJana1]

This is pretty bad. I have similar issues people have described here, but I am waiting for my MRI which is scheduled in one month.

Do you have any idea whether those finds were there before, or whether the flicker might have caused them?

I have one old laptop that was always pain-free, but recently it crashed, I had to recover it and with dual cards being present, the Intel one

is ok (old 2012 driver), but the AMD driver doesnt work and when that card is on it causes me significant headaches. I dont wanna mess with it more, as its my only working setup right now, so Ive ordered second hand the same laptop and will see there.

This however proved to me that even when PWM or LED problems arent present, something faulty with the graphics driver is enough to cause very similar symptopms. The pain is lesser than with PWM, I can muscle through work (cannot use Photoshop on the Intel one), but it still persists if I use for too long way after Im done looking at the screen.

I have researched PWM and LEDs and I wrote a guide on how to build your own cheap device to detect PWM on your laptop or any screen. Its an external sound card oscilloscope - https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide

Im gonna buy a USB one next to get better readings.

You can try it yourself to at least see on any new device, whether there is PWM or not. When you cant detect it, then another issue might be at hand, but at least it will give you some information. Reviews cannot be trusted, as many laptops ship with many different displays. This goes for iphones especially, where there are supposedly 5 source manufacturers.

I would really like to have more measurement methods to be able to specifically pinpoint what is the difference between the displays that cause the issue and those that dont. But theres too many variables (PWM, temporal dithering, blue light...) and hard to impossible to measure them all.

This issue is taking a lot of my free time and energy. It would be nice if Intel could help more as part of it is definately tied to the drivers as well. I am willing to provide any information I can.

[MJana1]

I wanted to add that I was also thinking whether some lawsuit would be possible. Not to win, but to get attention. I also found a charity lightaware.org which is based in England and tries to deal with some of these issues on the legislative level.

[MMasl2]

Hi all,

Same issue under Ubuntu 17.10 with i7-5500U. With default modesetting driver I can use the laptop for hours, with intel driver - immediate eye strain.

[PSobc2]

Hi MatveyM

On Lenovo T460, i have same problem, on Linux RedHat and modesetting driver.

Same situatiom, with AC Power, i have strain, without AC Power not.

[MMasl2]

Hi kracjar20,

In my case I did not notice any difference - battery or AC. And on modesetting driver it is fine - only intel gives me issues.

[PSobc2]

MatveyM

are you 100% sure your results on AC and battery aswell? Have you tried for longer period of time on those 2 modes?

[MMasl2]

Yes, I'm positive - I've been working on battery for hours, with modesetting driver it is fine. I believe that the issue for me is not just intel - displays and antialiasing method matters too. But in this particular case I have a situation where it seems that the intel driver is the one to blame.

[ASere7]

Hello!

I confirm the problem with Intel drivers.

I bought three modern laptops in a raw with same terrible eyestrain issue.

Windows with no temporal dithering does not help.

My solution is:

1) Install linux

2) nomodeset for intel kernel module i915

3) fbdev video driver

EYESTRAIN IS GONE!!!

Modesetting driver does not help.

I think problem is in i915 module or hardware acceleration.

krooto@MacBookAir:~$ inxi -G

Graphics:

Card-1: Intel Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics driver: N/A

Display Server: x11 (X.Org 1.19.5) driver: fbdev resolution: 1440x900~77Hz

OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 5.0 256 bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 17.2.8

[MMasl2]

Hi kroto,

"Modesetting driver does not help." Are you sure you were using modesetting driver, not intel? What is the version of modesetting driver?

You are having eye strain under Mac OS, right?

[ASere7]

1) I feel eyestrain in macos ( latest high sierra ) and windows 8.1 and 10

2) I manual config video driver for Linux in xorg.conf.

Yes I confirm eyestrain for modesetting driver version 1.19.5

3) now I'm experimenting with disabling KMS and revert to intelfb so software framebuffer is CPU hungry (

PS: difference between modesetting/intel and fbdev mode 1440x900 is rate frequency 60 vs 77Hz

Maybe it is important may be not, i dont know )

[PSobc2]

Hi

For me fbdev seems to be helping too....but anyway graphic performance on this driver is low, and i need to work on 2 monitors (and on fbdev driver only one is working), so even if it helps, it can't be main solution of this problem.

[ASere7]

I would appreciate if anyone help me to setup intelfb driver.

[BHelw]

Greetings. I found this thread via a Google search. I have suffered with eyestrain issues on desktop systems through the years and through trial and error discovered that it's not displays, which is what people seem to always suggest, but rather the graphics systems themselves. I'm fine with any Nvidia graphics cards and can go all day in front of the computer, but I can't last 10 minutes with Intel integrated graphics.

It's one of those things that I seldom had to think about as I typically use desktops and laptops for about five years before replacing. My last desktop came with Intel integrated graphics and my eyeballs hurt almost immediately, giving me a low-grade headache, so I purchased a Nvidia graphics card and then had zero issues upon install.

I have never had an issue with any laptop because apparently I just never had one with Intel integrated graphics - until today. I bought a new laptop (Asus Vivobook S) and immediately my eyestrain returned, hence finding this in Google search. It was not my intent to purchase this laptop with the integrated Intel - on the Asus page it lists Nvidia as the graphics card on Asus Vivobook S systems - but in comparing multiple systems between various retailers I made the mistake of pulling the trigger on the one with the Intel graphics - a regrettable oversight on my part.

I really don't have anything to add other than chiming in with a "me too." I will exclusively stick with Nvidia graphics from now on. Unfortunately, it's a hassle to return the laptop I purchased and I'm not sure if it's even possible considering I already registered it, etc. upon setup, so I'll probably give it to a family member to use.

[NMuss1]

I can believe this! I was thinking that the problem was the monitor of my notebook but now i reallize it is the grapich driver what kill my eyes! I have been having eye strain since the first momento i get this notebook! Intel HD 620 i5-7200U Acer Swift 5. So there is no aparently solution to this???

EDIT:

Someone in this treadh sayed that disabling intel graphics drivers solve the problem so i tried that, wen to device manager and disabled the intel HD drivers and i think the eye strain went down! I have to try further times to see if it is not placebo but i feelt it! What the cons of disabling intel HD 620 drivers? All the GPU aceleration is lost?

[PSobc2]

Hello,

For me it seems to be helping too(Windows Basic Driver)....fbdev drivers (not modesetting or intel) on Linux too.

But it can't be solution for me - performance on those drivers is very low, and on those drivers working on multiple monitors is not possible.

krooto , could you try to work on normal intel drivers on windows/linux , but without AC Power connected, and check if it works for you?

We have two users on this thread ( or more ) which disable AC Power seems to be helpful for eye strain. Maybe AC Power enables this painful acceleration, which causes strain in our case.

Greetings

[ASere7]

Hello!

I feel no difference between power connected to laptop or not (

Moreover I feel eyestrain on my old laptop in Windows after update Intel drivers to latest version ( also in Ubuntu 16.04 on same laptop )

For me problem is in latest Intel drivers not in old ones.

I failed to setup old intelfb driver to Macbook Air under Ubuntu.

Sadly decide to sell it (

[RSmit23]

Hello,

1. There's a whole community of us over at ledstrain.org

2. Those of you that have had success with basic VGA Driver, modesetting driver, or fbdriver, and find the performance unsatisfactory or cannot support more monitors, I might suggest you trying an external graphics card. These graphics card bypass all Intel graphics. Maybe something like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OD37KHG/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OD37KHG/. Please let us know what you try and if it works.

3. Intel drivers for Linux are completely open source, perhaps this is a good starting point for figuring out what eyestrain is. https://github.com/nitrocaster/igfxtweak https://github.com/nitrocaster/igfxtweak

4. Those of you who use Windows, have you tried ditherig.exe? It will instruct the Intel driver on Windows to not use temporal dithering, which flickers between two colors. Find it here https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp_en.html https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp_en.html under "Dithering Settings for Intel Graphics". Furthermore, a similar GitHub project is here: https://github.com/nitrocaster/igfxtweak GitHub - nitrocaster/igfxtweak: Intel Graphics tweak tool

5. If you're using an external monitor, find and install the correct ICC color profile. These are usually found with the drivers (you might have to open the exe file, which is just a ZIP archive, to find it). For example if you have Dell U2415 monitor, you will find it at Dell's website. For some users of ledstrain.org, installing this fixed their issue. Intel should never instruct an 8 bit display to use dithering, but afaik, it does anyway.

6. It's possible this "eye strain" is something no one has been able to identity. That is, it is not: PWM, temporal dithering, correct ICC color profiles, or blue light/LED sensitivity.

7. This is a worthwhile read: https://www.spinics.net/lists/intel-gfx/msg42771.html Re: Eyestrain problems with new Intel drivers — Linux Intel GFX. This person required vision therapy (perhaps for convergence insufficiency?) and he was eventually able to tolerate Intel graphics.

[PSobc2]

Anyone know how set microsoft basic video driver / fdev linux driver to work in dual monitor mode?

I am afraid that i have to use on of those drivers to avoid ete strain. But i badly need 2 monitors in my work.