Next release 100% compatibility

dave_frank · ‎03-21-2003

Steve,
Will you confirm that next release will keep ALL syntax options currently supported?

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-21-2003

100% source compatibility is our goal, and I'm not aware of any exceptions. You will need to fully rebuild your application and get updates from any third-party libraries you may be using. The default calling convention will change, which may mean some modification of ATTRIBUTES directives if your code assumes the CVF defaults hold (or you can use a switch to restore CVF defaults.) Most applications shouldn't need even this.

Steve

gfthomas8 · ‎03-21-2003

1. Is there any update on Fortran-C/C++ mixed-language issue within .net?
2. Will VF care whether one has .net 2002 or .net 2003, the latter not being a SP of the former?
3. I have IFC 7 but I don't use it. By when do I have to register it in order to get the upgrade deal to VF when it becomes available?

Ciao,
Gerry T.

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-21-2003

1. Nothing new to report here - MS hasn't changed in how much of a pain in the posterior they have made this.

2. Both VS.NET 2002 and 2003 will be supported. (You can have both installed, and we'll support both if that's what you want.) Note that VS6 support will be dropped.

3. If you want to take advantage of the 12 months free upgrades offer for IF7, then yes, you have to register. There will be an upgrade offer for CVF users - I have no clue at this point what it will be. I can tell you with certainty, though, that if you want IMSL, you'll have to pay extra for it - Visual Numerics has significantly raised their prices for IMSL 5.0 (to match NAG's pricing, apparently). It's no longer going to be the bargain it was, and this will affect all the Fortran vendors who package IMSL, not just us. (It will still be cheaper than buying it separately from VNI, though.)

Steve

gfthomas8 · ‎03-21-2003

Thanks for the update.

Ciao,
Gerry T.

Jugoslav_Dujic · ‎03-22-2003

Note that VS6 support will be dropped.

Too high a price for "progress".

:-(((

Jugoslav

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-22-2003

Re: VS6 support

You won't get any argument from me - I consider the VS.NET IDE a big step backwards. But we had no choice:

1. Microsoft would not transfer to Intel the special arrangement Compaq had to integrate cleanly with the VS6 IDE. (However, even before Intel came on the scene, we probably would have had to drop VS6 support anyway because we didn't have adequate resources to keep up two completely different IDE integration packages.)
2. The Intel "plugin" for VS6 was crude, had far lower functionality than CVF's integration, and was unsupportable.

You win some, you lose some. I think overall, the package will be better, but there will be some things I'll miss.

Steve

durisinm · ‎03-24-2003

Steve,

You pointed out that those who want IMSL will have to pay extra for it. A while back there was some discussion about how Intel would differentiate between CVF Standard and CVF Pro users who bought Intel Fortran 7. I have one of each copy of CVF and just bought two copies of IF7. I know that I'm entitled to two free copies of Intel Visual Fortran when it becomes available, but how will I be able to get a copy of the IMSL routines? Will Intel be offering it as a separate product, not one bundled with VF? Will the IMSL routines have their own yearly maintenance fee?

Mike

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-24-2003

The way I understand it, and this is subject to change... If you bought Intel Fortran 7, then you'll get any new releases of a "standard edition" for 12 months. We'll obviously have to work out a way for CVF Pro users who took up that offer to get IMSL for an incremental upgrade cost (note that CVF Pro upgrades were also more expensive than CVF Std upgrades).

There will also be a two-tier price structure for upgrades from CVF, just as there is now. I don't know if Intel will be selling IMSL separately.

I think the way we're doing this is with a Standard and Professional edition, like CVF, with IMSL in the Pro edition. If you have support for the Pro edition, that includes updates we have for IMSL. I think the tech support method will change a bit too - with CVF, we didn't provide tech support for IMSL, but I think Intel will provide first-level support for it.

Please understand that this hasn't been nailed down yet, but we're trying to do what is reasonable. I do expect to hear a lot of complaints when the IMSL pricing is announced, but such complaints should be directed to VNI. I don't think we'll be making any money off it and the main reason Intel is even packaging IMSL is that so many CVF customers asked for it.

Steve

jean-vezina7 · ‎03-24-2003

To all:

The IMSL 5 library as sold by VNI no longer allows redistribution of executables that make calls to the library according to their new licensing scheme . The
library is now protected using FlexLM.

With the new licensing scheme, you cannot write a program
that calls one or more of their routines (for example
for doing a regression) and give the executable to someone else. Each user of the .exe will need to have a runtime license from IMSL.

Will the IMSL library included with the future Fortran
product be subject to such restrictions ? This is of
great concern for us as this will cause lot of trouble
in setting the license for each computer that will have
to run our programs. The usefulness and value of the library is greatly diminished in this case.

Best regards,

Jean Vezina

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-24-2003

From what I have been told, users who purchase IMSL from Intel will get redistribution rights at no added charge. This indeed differs from what you get if you buy from VNI directly.

Steve

pcurtis · ‎03-24-2003

Steve, can you address Win32 support in the next version?
The current descriptions of IVF explicitly state that Win32 API support is a mere afterthought, and that IVF is absolutely not recommended for apps which are heavily invested in Win32 API calls. Will this be so for the harmonic convergence, or is Win32 support to be abandoned as well, along with DevStudio v6?

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-24-2003

Whatever it is you're reading, it does not pertain to anything called IVF, since there is no such product. Nor am I aware of anything that says Win32 support is an "afterthought" - do you have a reference for that?

Intel Fortran 7.0 includes Win32 API declarations based on CVF's, and they're pretty good for the most part. Some restrictions are based on the current lack of IF7's support for STRUCTUREs in modules. The "harmonic convergence", as you put it, will support Win32 API programming to the same level as CVF, at least.

I've tried a handful of CVF's Win32 samples with Intel Fortran 7 and was able to get most everything working.

Steve

jean-vezina7 · ‎03-24-2003

Thanks a lot for the clarification!

Jean Vezina

gfthomas8 · ‎03-24-2003

An powerful alternative to IMSL is the NAG library (currently a CVF DLL usable from Fortran, VC++, VB, VBA, the .NET crowd, etc.). If VNI ups IMSL's price without matching NAG's value, then I'll have the justification I need to switch to NAG. The NAG C library comes with the Intel C/C++ compiler as 1/2 price. Any chance Intel can swing one with NAG to do the same for Fortran?

Ciao,
Gerry T.

durisinm · ‎03-25-2003

Steve,

If the forthcoming Intel Visual Fortran won't support Visual Studio 6, then will it be bundled with a copy of the Visual Studio .NET IDE just as CVF comes bundled with a copy of VS 6? If not, does that mean that users of Intel Visual Fortran will have to purchase a separate copy of VS.NET? As you said, I realize that all your answers at this time are just your best guess.

Mike

gfthomas8 · ‎03-25-2003

> There will also be a two-tier price structure for
> upgrades from CVF, just as there is now. I don't know
> if Intel will be selling IMSL separately.
>
> I think the way we're doing this is with a Standard
> and Professional edition, like CVF, with IMSL in the
> Pro edition.

I would prefer that the VF Pro edition include everything (COM, Array Visualizer, CXML/(MKL?),samples, the whole catastrophe) that is currently part of CVF Pro, with the exception of IMSL. IMSL could be bundled with VF at an additional discounted cost for those who want it.

The incremental cost of the CVF to VF move is not insignificant; .NET, support/subscription, IMSL replacement (NAG), Intel C++, etc. It's hardly the generous offer made by Digital when DVF replaced MSFPS or when DVF transitioned to CVF.

Ciao,
Gerry T.

jean-vezina7 · ‎03-25-2003

Just a note: The NAG library as sold by NAG
has no executable redistribution rights and it is protected using FlexLM. For the developer who wants to
distribute his applications, this is a serious
restriction.

Regards,

Jean Vezina

Steven_L_Intel1 · ‎03-25-2003

We won't be bundling the Microsoft IDE (we could not get MS to agree to this), but the pricing will be such that it shouldn't cost any more overall. Visual C++.NET Standard is all you need, and this is routinely available for about $80 "street". We expect resellers to offer this to customers who don't already have it, but more than half of CVF customers also use Visual C++, so for them, their costs will go down.

The COM stuff is all planned to be in the "Standard" edition - the Professional edition would add IMSL only.

Yes, we know it will be a change from the simplicity of CVF. We're doing all that we can to minimize the effects.

Steve

gfthomas8 · ‎03-25-2003

> The COM stuff is all planned to be in the "Standard"
> edition - the Professional edition would add IMSL
> only.
>

How about the Array Visualizer (DLL, OCX)? Will it be part of Standard or Professional VF?

Thanks for your patience,
Gerry T.

gfthomas8 · ‎03-25-2003

> > The COM stuff is all planned to be in the
> "Standard"
> > edition - the Professional edition would add IMSL
> > only.
> >
>
> How about the Array Visualizer (DLL, OCX)? Will it be
> part of Standard or Professional VF?
>

The Array Visualizer is part of IFC 7 so presumably it'll be included in VF Standard.

Ciao,
Gerry T.