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idata
Community Manager
3,739 Views

Cannot Boot from USB

I recently purchased an Intel NUC8i7BEH, using 16 GB of Crucial memory, and 240 GB of Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD.

The system works well with one exception. Once loaded with Windows 10 (W10), the system no longer recognizes a USB to boot from. Historically.

I started out by booting from an Acronis True Image USB key. This enabled me to transfer my current W10 system onto the Samsung 970 SSD on the M.2 socket. This was the one and only time I was able to boot from a USB key.

I have done do diligence and look far and wide on the Internet for solutions to this problem, and have found nothing that works. Solutions tried are as follows.

1. Download and load the latest BIOS, BE0048.bio, onto a FAT32 USB key, and updated the NUC8i7BEH using the Power Button F4 "BIOS Recovery" method. BIOS recovered correctly, still not able to boot from USB. The F10 option at startup shows the USB Key I want to Boot from, Acronis True Image, but the lettering is white, and any attempt to boot from the USB key just simply returns to the F10 menu. If I select the internal 970 SSD, then it boots normally to W10. I am running the BIOS with secure boot OFF.

2. I also notice that if I go to legacy boot, a legacy boot USB key is never listed. I made a FreeDOS legacy boot key using Rufus. This key of course does not boot.

3. I removed the jumper so that I could use all the various reset options, none of these worked either.

4. I put the jumper on position 2,3 to erase the CMOS memory. This did not work either.

My very last effort was to remove both the standard SSD and the M.2 SSD. With both removed, the NUC booted from the Acronis True Image or a Fedora 28 Live Image USB key just fine. In addition, it also boots fine from from a legacy FreeDos USB key. Note, the BIOS reports both USB keys that are UFI boot, but will not report the legacy FreeDOS usb key.

The F10 menu is useless. It always reports the UFI based USB keys, but will not boot from them at all under any condition. The F10 menu does not report the legacy USB key, but the NUC will boot from the legacy USB key if you just allow it to proceed without pressing the F10 key.

Also, the F10 key will not allow me to select which of my two SSDs I want to boot from, it always defers to the M.2 slot. In order to boot from the non-M.2 slot, I have to go in and change the boot order in the BIOS.

I have reported this directly to the VisualBios team but have not received a reply in over a week. Any comments are welcome.

0 Kudos
13 Replies
idata
Community Manager
247 Views

WNickNick: Thank you very much for joining the Intel communities support.

At this point pretty much you tried all the troubleshoot steps that we recommend for this type scenario.

In this case, since you were able to get in contact with the VisualBios team, what we recommend is to wait for their response to confirm if there will be a possible solution for this issue.

Regards,

 

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

 

Under Contract to Intel Corporation
idata
Community Manager
247 Views

WNickNick: For testing purposes, please test the NUC booting from the USB flash drive using just one SSD at the time, first use the SATA SSD with the M.2 SSD removed and then the other way around, to rule out if one of them may be causing an incompatibility issue.

 

Once you get the chance please let us know the results.

Regards,

 

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

 

Under Contract to Intel Corporation
idata
Community Manager
247 Views

Test Summary in response to above reply by Intel Staff - 10/4/18 - WNickNick

Case 1: No SSD is SATA Slot, Samsung 970 EVO in M.2 slot.

Bios Settings from the F2 key.

Boot Priority Section….

UEFI BootPriority Section…

UEFI Boot - Checked

Boot Drive Order...

UEFI: Generic Storage Device 272: Part0: OS Bootloader

UEFI: WindowsBootManager: Part2: OS Bootloader

Legacy Boot Priority Section…

Legacy Boot - Checked

Boot Drive Order - No Boot Drive

Boot Configuration Section…

UEFI Boot Section...

Boot USB Devices Checked

Boot Network Devices Last Checked.

Boot Devices Section…

USB - Checked

Secure Boot Section…

Secure Boot Config Section…

Secure Boot and all other sections - Not Checked

System Performance… No SSD in external SSD SATA socket.

Samsung 970 Evo M.2 Socket

With USB key (Either Fedora 28 or Acronis True Image) on USB 3.0 front socket

Boot from Bios F10 - Save - Boots to Windows 10 Insider Build 17760 (W10)

Boot From Power up - Boots to W10

Boot from Power Up F10 Key - Refuses to boot from USB, listed first, (in white), just

returns to F10 menu when selected and CR hit.

Boot From F10 Key when Windows Boot Manager (in blue) selected, CR hit.

System Performance… No M.2 SSD in socket, Fedora SSD in external SATA socket

All of the above the same except the Boot Drive order as follows:

UEFI: Generic Storage Device 272: Part0: OS Bootloader

UEFI: SATA: Part2: OS Bootloader

Boot from Bios F10 - Save - Boots to Fedora 28

Boot From Power up - Boots to Fedora

Boot from Power Up F10 Key - Refuses to boot from USB, listed first, (in white), just

returns to F10 menu when selected and CR hit.

Boot From Power Up F10 Key, Boots to Fedora 28 (in blue) selected, CR hit.

System Performance… No SSDs installed in either SATA of M.2 socket.

All of the above the same except the Boot Drive order as follows:

UEFI: Generic Storage Device 272: Part0: OS Bootloader

Legacy Boot - Unchecked

Refuses to boot USB - Error message - No boot drive found

Legacy Boot - Checked

Boots to USB under all startup conditions except Power Up F10,

USB is listed but refuses to boot as in examples above.

Note! If a real legacy USB is used, FreeDos from Rufus, it boots just fine, but is not lis...

idata
Community Manager
247 Views

WNickNick: Thank you very much for providing those results.

 

 

I sent you a private message, please verify your inbox.

 

 

Regards,

 

Alberto R.

 

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

 

Under Contract to Intel Corporation
idata
Community Manager
247 Views

Alberto - Yes you do indeed have my private inbox correct.

Just for clarity, I forgot to add.

Product Code BOXNUC8i7BEH1

idata
Community Manager
247 Views

WNickNick: Perfect, thank you very much for providing that information, you will find all the instructions in the private message that I sent you.

 

 

Regards,

 

Alberto R.

 

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

 

Under Contract to Intel Corporation
LeonWaksman
Super User
247 Views

Hi Alberto R.

Why your advice is secret? I would like to know the answer also. This is open community. Why not share your knowledge how to solve problems?

Regards

Leon

idata
Community Manager
247 Views

Hello lw1948,

 

 

We use private messages to collect user personal or private information such as Product Serial Numbers, Phone Numbers, Addresses, etc.

 

Anything to do with the issue, troubleshooting or resolution is posted publicly.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Pat S

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

 

Under Contract to Intel Corporation

 

LeonWaksman
Super User
247 Views

Hi Pat S,

Thank you for your response. In this case I would like ask you why I can't see any relevant answer to the WNickNick questions ? Two days ago I've sent a private message addressed to Alberto R. and I didn't get any answer. I think that WNickNick is right. In my opinion the problem is caused by deleting the Legacy Boot option from Bios. I've similar problem in NUC7i7DNHE. Why this option was removed? Why we need now remove SSD and/or HDD in order to boot from DOS USB?

Regards

Leon

Ronny_G_Intel
Moderator
247 Views

Hi Leon,

The removal of the "boot legacy" capability has caused some issues, yes I agree with you. All of the concerns I get around this topic I send out to the product team so that they are aware of the consequences.

In my opinion and this is me talking (not Intel) the BIOS itself is turning 40 years old soon, it was officially release in 1980 if I am correct and Intel is planning to completely transition to Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) by 2020, Intel has implemented UEFI mechanism with legacy BIOS support as an additional option, however the plan to remove legacy BIOS support is an effort to improve security. For most users, the removal will go unnoticed, but for those who still use and rely on legacy boot on the newest platforms, it potentially means migrating to other platforms.

On this specific issue, the legacy feature is still available in BIOS ver 0048 and the system can boot to Free DOS created with Rufus. I got that verified with a i3 system, the BIOS is the same. See image attached.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks,

Ronny G

LeonWaksman
Super User
247 Views

Hi Ronny,

Thank you for your replay. But still the problems remains. I like the UEFI bios, but still the possibility to boot from DOS USB is important. Not only for Rufus created USB. For example, it is needed for in different backup application to boot the NUC in order to restore saved drive image. It is also needed if you want update BIOS using iflash utility. So, I'm not so sure that it is right step to delete this possibility.

Regards

Leon

idata
Community Manager
247 Views

Test Summary - 10/5/18 - WNickNick

I do not agree that the "Cannot boot USB" problem is hardware related. These are the reasons that I believe that the VisualBios is the problem.

1. USB boots fine from UEFI USB keys if there are NO SSDs in the NUC, legacy boot flag shecked. Boots either from the power on F10 menu, or just power on.

2. If an unallocated SSD is resident in the NUC, then the USB will boot fine, legacy boot flag shecked. This is how I transferred my copy of Windows 10 onto my internal M.2 Samsung 970 EVO SSD. Acronis True Image UEFI USB boot key, transfer in from external backup source. Boots either from the power on F10 menu, or just power on.

3. The above operations are not possible unless the Legacy Boot flag is checked. If this flag is not checked, then the NUC responds with a "A bootable device has not been detected" error message. Why should a UEFI boot process be dependent on a Legacy boot flag. If the legacy boot flag is checked, then the "Boot Drive Order" will display the UEFI USB key. If a true legacy USB key, FreeDos is present, it does not appear in "Boot Drive Order"

4. A legacy USB, FreeDos generated by Rufus, will boot fine if the legacy boot flag is checked, and the above initial states are present, no SSDs or unallocated SSD are present. Note, that the presence of the legacy USB key is NOT shown in the BIOS Legacy section, just the "No boot drive message". Boots either from the power on F10 menu, or just power on.

Note. The two UEFI USB keys used are basically ISO images generated by using Rufus to copy ISO files to the USB keys and have no partition tables, and also boot fine on my Vaio laptop, with secure boot either on or off. All of the above tests were done with secure boot off in the NUC BIOS. The FreeDos key boots fine on my Vaio laptop with secure boot off, and legacy boot enabled.

Possibly you can get the VisualBios team to look at this and comment. I would really like to avoid having to go through the whole return the NUC and get a new one dance. Possibly the VisualBios team can get me a beta Bios to try out, or give an estimate for when the next Bios revision will appear so I can see if the same problems persist.

Thanks

idata
Community Manager
247 Views

Test Summary - 10/8/18 - WNickNick

Partial success…

I discovered that if I disabled UEFI boot, and enabled Legacy boot, that I could boot from legacy USB keys with the Windows 10 (W10) Samsung 970 EVO SSD in place.

This was great because now I could backup and restore my W10 system using Acronis True Image USB key to boot.

I am still struggling to get any USB key to boot UEFI. Keys that boot on my Vaio laptop with UEFI and Secure boot are:

Acronis True Image, and Fedora 28.

I created a Clear Linux Installation key, and it only boots on my Vaio laptop in UEFI mode, will not boot with secure mode turned on. On inspection of the Clear Linus key on a Fedora 28 loaded on my laptop, everything looks to be what is required for a UEFI boot. GPT device, the proper FAT 16 EFI partition with all the proper/EFI/Boot directories with the boot files resident. You would think that Intel branded Linux would boot properly on Intel NUC hardware. Nope!! After many experiments, I have yet to find a solution. I need to boot from USB key in UEFI mode in order to add a Fedora or Clear Linux partition to my Samsung 970 EVO SSD so I can have a dual boot system

I tried booting off a Fedora 28 USB key in legacy mode, everything came up OK, but when I went to install the system on the SSD, there was an error message that did not let me continue. Apparently it was expecting to install the system on an MBR SSD since I did a legacy boot, but my W10 is on a GPT SSD.

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