Hades Canyon (NUC8i7HVK & NUC8I7HNK) not turning on - self brick mode

[CPiet2]

I was urged to open up my own thread for a problem other people also experienced with their hades canyon NUCs.

tl;dr: The NUC does not turn on by pressing the power button, after a loss of power to the power brick.

More detailed description:

• proper shutdown from windows (not sleep or hibernate)
• nuc turnes off
• remove power cable from wall socket (power brick disconnect)
• reattach power cable after a minute to wall socket
• LEDs offline (signaling no power ?)
• press power button on NUC
• no reaction, no light, no standby, simply bricked

Solution: remove all cables, open nuc, remove bios battery cable for 10 minutes, reattach everything, power button reacts, repeat this for every power loss to power brick

I discovered this issue after I had disconnected my NUC from wall power over night after the first day of use. In the morning I wanted to get back to work on the NUC but it wouldn't turn on. That's when I started to search for this issue. I found several people having the exact problem:

• https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P00004KN0JaSAL/help-2-hades-canyons-wont-switch-on
• https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P00004JSDlYSAX/good-day-when-i-disconnect-power-from-nuc-it-stops-working-not-even-power-on-only-helps-to-turn-off-the-battery-bios-and-tooks-out-the-ssd-drive-please-help-me-tried-to-use-different-ssd-and-bios-versions-no-result
• https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P0000490VdQSAU/nuc8i7hvk-no-longer-turns-on?language=en_US

Then there is the comment of @RPete12​, which is on point:

If you are saying that disconnecting the Bios battery for a short while then allows the unit to power up again then I can’t give you a fix but it a problem that been around and reported for some 8/10 months on some NUC8iHVK’s and Intel seem to not care or are not interested in fixing the issue. Even new NUC’s that are fine to begin with develop the problem after a period of time. Rolling back the BIOS makes no difference whatsoever. In my case replacement NUC’s under warranty have still developed the problem but fortunately I leave my NUC’s on 24/7/365 so doesn’t really affect me anymore. But for anyone who moves their NUC around to different locations it must be an absolute nightmare.

To add some infos to my story:

• I updated my BIOS to the latest Version 0054
• NUC8I7HNK variant with 2x GSkill 2400mhz RAM
• For the first days of use I had a WD 240 GB M.2 2280 SSD installed, which was fried on the third day by the NUC
• First it was showing a SMART error, then it disappeared even from BIOS
• After that I was using the NUC without the SSD only via USB stick, the boot / power button issue exists before and after the SSD issue (with and without an SSD installed)

At this point I am beyond disappointed by this product. I never experienced something like this (except on the RTX 2080ti with artifacts). I could live with some minor issues on this box, since it is really a highly innovative product. But basic things like a functional power button / power system should be mandatory. Normally I would have just returned it to the reseller but in my case I have passed the timeframe for a return. And now I feel like I am stuck with it and I don't want to go through multiple replacements as other people had to endure - without a happy ending.

[LeonWaksman]

Hi @CPiet2​ 

1. To complete the information about your problem please update your Bios using recovery method with the Yellow Security Jumper removed (rather than F7 update:
2. Prepare USB stick fully formatted to FAT32 with Bios file HN0054.bio https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28642/BIOS-Update-HNKBLi70-86A-?product=126143 . Format your USB with Quick Format option unchecked. Do not format your USB in MAC (OS) or Linux machine. Use Windows.
3. Disconnect the power adapter and remove the upper cover and the LED panel from your NUC. Disconnect the LED panel connector before panel removing.
4. Remove the yellow security jumper (see Product Technical Spec, para. 2.2.3.4, page 46 ) and close the bottom cover. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/mini-pcs/nuc-kits/NUC8i7HVK_TechProdSpec.pdf
5. Insert the USB with the HN0054.bio file.
6. Reconnect the power adapter and power ON the NUC. Wait 30 sec - 2min. The Recovery process will start automatically and will end after 2 -5 minutes.
7. When bios recovery is completed, switch the power OFF, remove the power adapter and replace the Security Jumper (pins 1-2) . Reinstall the LED panel and the upper cover.
8. Power your NUC ON.
9. Enter Bios (press F2 during boot process).
10. Press F9, followed by "Y" to set bios to default settings and then F10 confirmed by "Y" to save settings and exit to Windows.
11. If the problem wasn't solved with Bios recovery, please download Intel System Support Utility https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility-for-Windows-
12. With the SSU run system scan and the results attach to your post.
13. For your information I also have (like I imagine, thousands other users) NUV8i7HVK and haven't experienced any problems (like you and two other user have). So, in case that the Bios recovery will not help, probably Intel Support will recommend opening a support ticket to get RMA.

Regards

Leon

[CPiet2]

Hi @LWAKSMAN​ , could you tell me why I should reflash the BIOS via the recovery method ? Sounds like a lot of work.

I did not update the BIOS by the F7 but with the Browser update tool.

What is different using this method then the other ? Since the BIOS flash was successful and there have been multiple BIOS resets done.

[LeonWaksman]

Hi @CPiet2 (Customer)​ 

1. Bios recovery is more complete Bios firmware replacement than Bios update method (using F7 key or IDSA). During performing Bios recovery all parts of Bios firmware are replaced. I ask you to perform Bios recovery since may be Bios update wasn't enough in this case. Any way it is easy to do following my instruction above. Since you know how to open your NUC, I've suggested to recover Bios with the Yellow Security Jumper removed. This method is most thorough. However, if you don't wish to open your NUC, follow my instructions to perform Bios recovery from Power Button Menu (this method I'm using in most cases).
2. Prepare USB stick fully formatted to FAT32 (disable quick format option during format). Format your USB on Windows machine (rather than Linux or MAC). Save the Bios file HN0054.bio https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28642/BIOS-Update-HNKBLi70-86A-?product=126143 on this stick and insert it into front USB slot with amber color (NUC shall be OFF).
3. Press Power Button for about 3 seconds. Count: 1001, 1002, 1003,1004. Release the Power Button. NUC should reboot into Power Button Menu. You should release the Power Button before 4-sec shut down override.
4. Press F4 and the recovery shall start (it can take up to 30 seconds for messages to appear on the screen).
5. When the recovery finishes, press on Power Button and hold it, until NUC switches OFF. Pull out the power cord. Remove the USB stick.
6. Replace the power cord and press Power Button to switch the computer to ON.
7. Enter Bios setting by pressing F2 during boot process.
8. Press F9(followed by "Y"), to set Bios to default settings. Press F10 (followed by "Y"), to save the settings and exit to O.S. Let the NUC fully reboot.

Leon

[CPiet2]

1. I am not sure about that Bios recovery is a more complete Bios firmware replacement, but I tried it anyway and it didn't help.
2. A BIOS update is a BIOS reflash and not like a patch file. But I heard that sometimes some settings are not being reset after an update, so thats why you should clear the CMOS after an update. Anyway it did not help.
3. I made a video after the bios recovery flash demonstrating the problem, currently uploading.

[LeonWaksman]

1. Bios recovery is more complete Bios firmware replacement. You will probably get better explanation from @n.scott.pearson​ , he is retired from Intel Software Engineering.
2. Still you didn't attach the SSU report (see my previous post).
3. With all those information, Intel Engineer will direct you to Intel Support in order to replace your NUC.

Leon

[CPiet2]

1. That would be interesting to hear !
2. I run the SSU on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, which appears to be not supported. Also how would the content of the SSU report help with this problem, since it is clearly not an software issue.
3. I added a video demonstrating the problem.

[LeonWaksman]

1. The Ubuntu 18.04 is not supported, however I read that 18.10 is woking good: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/10/22/intels-hades-canyon-nuc-and-ubuntu-linux-18-10-now-perfect-together/#33a99f125f72
2. The SSU report is needed for Intel Support Engineers.
3. On the video I saw that after reconnecting the CMOS Battery and the Power Adapter your NUC booted without depressing Power Button. This suppose not to happen. Next time when you disconnect the CMOS battery, wait 15 minutes at least.
4. After powering Off and depressing the Power Button to switch ON again the NUC boots correctly. You say that if you disconnect the Power Adapter it will not boot. This can be caused by failed CMOS Battery (yes I know this a new NUC, however the battery can be faulty). Try a new battery, one like this: https://www.amazon.com/CR2032-Battery-Wire-Leads-CMOS/dp/B074PB82DT .
5. I saw also the checksum error in CMOS. This warning was generated afetr resetting the Bios settings to default? If yes, this also may be caused by faulty battery. You may see the correct voltage on the battery terminals, but will not work under load.
6. Last curios. After running your clip, background in my computer was changed from Slide Show to dotted matrix.

Leon

[CPiet2]

1. I was speaking about the SSU script, ubuntu 18.04 works fine on the NUC.
2. Now the Intel Support Engineers (where ever they are hiding xD have what they need, so you say they show up now ?)
3. I am pretty sure that this behaviour is standard, if not it can give a clue about the cause of the problem. The same happens with 15 minutes of wait. The outcome is the same: a cleared BIOS.
4. I don't say it, I demonstrate it in the video (0:41 onwards). The CMOS battery is working fine. Also if the battery would be empty it would always show the error of a cleared BIOS, which does not occur. Only if I clear the BIOS by removing the battery cable.
5. Yes the checksum error occurs after you reset the BIOS by removing the cable - what I did. It is not a faulty battery, I removed the battery current to reset the BIOS in order to show the only way on how to recover from this bricked state.
6. I am not sure what you refer to, but the video is a plain mp4 file - also viewable on https://gfycat.com/damppettyblueshark

[CPiet2]

SSU report

[Wanner_G_Intel]

Hello CPiet2, Thank you for posting on this Intel Community. If performing the BIOS recovery recommended at the beginning did not resolve this issue, try: Connecting the Intel NUC to a different AC outlet. If you have one, try another Intel NUC power adapter. If you have one, try using a different hard drive or SSD. Boot the system with just one memory module installed at a time. Try moving it to the other memory slot. Make sure to test slot one, closest to the motherboard. It is worth mentioning that we are investigating this issue further. Please let us know if you are still experiencing this problem. Wanner G. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation

[CPiet2]

Hi!

• did try to connect the nuc to a different AC outlet: no result
• don't have an other NUC power adapter
• don't have another ssd - booting over the usb drive for now ( though it is more a problem of powering on, booting is the second step )
• did try the memory modules as requested: no result
• did change the memory multiplier from 18 to 14: no result

[n_scott_pearson]

I cannot reproduce this scenario on my HV NUC. It powers back up just fine.

One thing of note: I disable support for auto power on. All of my NUCs, if powered off, must be restarted by pressing their individual power buttons.

...S

[LeonWaksman]

1. If you will look at the video @CPiet2​  has attached to his post above (I'm regret that the post are not numbered now), you will see that the NUC is starting after shut OFF from windows and depressing the POwer ON button. @CPiet2​  says that it works because he didn't disconnect the Power Adapter. This brings me to the conclusion that the CMOS battery is faulty.

Note:

After running the mp4 video on my computer, the Windows background was replaced by dotted background. I have to recover manually the original background in Windows Display settings. There is a video clip available in cloud storage, however I can't hear there any voice.

Leon

[CPiet2]

Hi, I think the key point here is that this non functional power button only occurs if you shutdown windows / linux and have a power disconnect afterwards.

When forcefully powering off the nuc in windows by pressing the power button for some seconds, removing and reattaching the power, then you can start the nuc nornaly by pressing the power button.

I think blaming the BIOS battery is a bit too simple. If the BIOS battery would be empty, wouldn't the NUC always tell me that the CMOS got cleared? In theory yes, because there would be no energy to hold the settings (when also disconnecting the power cord). But in fact I have to remove the BIOS battery in order to clear the BIOS settings. So there must be enough energy in the battery.

Re video again: I am not sure what you refer to, but the video is a plain mp4 file 

[n_scott_pearson]

Again, this does NOT happen on my HV NUC. I shutdown Windows normally, I disconnect the power supply from A/C. I want a minute. I reconnect everything and I hit the power button - and it powers on just fine. No hangs, no corruption, no issues at all.

It definitely seems like the CMOS is not working correctly. It isn't necessarily as a result of a bad battery, however. The BIOS does not actually store any data in the CMOS (well, other than the date and time which is maintained there if battery is working). In theory, the CMOS' only involvement is in the determination of a state loss and the subsequent reset of the BIOS Configuration if this is the case (which is, BTW, stored in the firmware hub (flash) with the BIOS and other firmware).

Bottom line, I believe you have a bad base unit and you need to contact Intel Customer Support directly to set up an RMA.

...S

[CPiet2]

Again, I am sure that your unit is working fine. That is not what this thread is about.

It is about broken NUCs like the one I got. And also this thread is about documenting theses broken NUCs. I am speaking of NUCs, because I am not the only one with this problem.

I started this thread also because of comments like the one by @RPete12​  which got me worried if I should put my trust in this product anymore, since I need something rock solid.

And from my experiences here in this forum, I am better off not putting any more time into this issue or commenting here.

If the outcome of all the work I put into this thread, making the video and trouble shooting for days is that @WannerG_Intel​ acknowledging the problem and investigating this issue further - then it is fine with me. Also this thread could be useful for people who have the same problem and / or are thinking about participating in the forum.

[LeonWaksman]

Hi @CPiet2​ 

1. I was seeing your video again. This time it ended without affecting my background.
2. Please see the video clip you have attached, starting at 3:48 - 4:19. I can clearly see on your clip at 4:15 that the NUC starts correctly after depressing Power button. You explain this at 4:19 that it is starting normally because you didn't disconnected the Power Adapter. This brings me to conclusion, that something in Bios data is damaged after disconnecting the Power Adapter and this is because the CMOS battery is failed.
3. If you prefer to replace your NUC, you may do this. It should arrive with good battery, however it can be refurbished computer (which is OK). You will need to reactivate your Windows 10 (if installed).

Leon

[CPiet2]

Hey @LWAKSMAN​ , thanks for your observations and tips. I don't think that is the issue because of what I described earlier. Anyway the NUC is in RMA and I hope to get the money back.

Quote:

Hi, I think the key point here is that this non functional power button only occurs if you shutdown windows / linux and have a power disconnect afterwards.

When forcefully powering off the nuc in windows by pressing the power button for some seconds, removing and reattaching the power, then you can start the nuc nornaly by pressing the power button.

[nuctestit]

The problem is still up to date!!!

I deliberately bought a brand new NUC8i7HVK 3 days ago - manufactured in spring 2019, inserted my Samsung Evo 970 SSD (non-Pro) with installed Windows 10 Prof. 64 Bit build1903, booted the OS, shut the system down, removed power supply, replugged it and pressed the Power on button. Result: Bricked, same symptoms as described by CPiet2 and myself in another thread here in the community.

Regards

nuctestit

[MRoss5200]

Looks like you may have got a bad unit. I tried my HVK from Nov 2018 with BIOS 0054. I have (2) 4GB 2666MHz DDR4 SoDIMMs and a 250GB 960 EVO SSD NVMe M.2. I haven't had any issues with powering off, pulling power and letting it sit for 10 seconds and then powering on again. I did have an older version of Windows 10 on my drive (RS4), so I will try 19H1 and see if I see the issue. Also, I had BIOS 0054 installed, so I will put 0058 (latest) on to see if anything changes.