LAPQC71A thunderbolt and other dropout issues

[Gregmac]

I'm trying to use the Thunderbolt port with a professional audio interface and it has many dropout problems even at high latency. I'm only trying to stream single stereo stream at 44.1khz 24 bit. When the WiFi or LAN is being used it drops out frequently. I need to disable all the WiFi port, Intel Speed Shift,  Intel Turbo Boost,  in the bios and disable the LAN in the device manager. The USB works far better which seems very strange for such a small load. Also a separate issue the WiFi drops out and then won't connect when I plug an external hard drive into the left USB port or have a 4 port hub connected. 

Is there a specific fix or problem with this?

thanks Greg

[AlHill]

Are you up-to-date on the drivers, especially the thunderbolt driver?

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196641/intel-nuc-9-extreme-laptop-kit-lapqc71a.html

[Ronny_G_Intel]

Hi Gregmac,

As mentioned by AlHill, please make sure that you have the latest Firmware and Drivers running on your system. Here is the URL for our Download Center: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/196641/Intel-Whitebook-LAPQC71A

If you still have issues after updating your system, please run the Intel® System Support Utility for Windows* and provide us with the log file. Here is the URL for the application: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility-for-Windows-
In addition to the SSU log file, please provide us with the Brand/Model of the devices that you are connecting to the laptop and any other necessary step to replicate the issue.

Regards,
Ronny G

[Gregmac]

Hi Ronny,

thanks for your help and sorry for the slow reply, the notification got stuck in my new emails's junk mail.

Yes I have all the latest drivers and firmware, always up to date, though lately there is an error with IDSA where it won't install a driver update as it thinks the driver I have is newer. However I doubt that is relative to this problem as the problem has been happening since day 1 and no updates have change it.

The system report is attached. 

The hardware is the Antelope Audio discreet 8 connected via thunderbolt through the startech thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt 2 adapter. I'm using genuine cables and have tried using the apple adapter and changing cables and it make no difference.

here's the web link to the discreet 8 (it's not the newer synergy core version) but is still quite new. Apparently the driver works fine on windows desktops with the separate thunderbolt card

https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/discrete-8/

To replicate the problem run any Digital Audio Workstation Software with the device connected by thunderbolt and play back an audio stream at any sample rate or buffer size and the problem will become evident.  The driver provided on the manufactures website and attached here (AntelopeAudio-x64-Version+1.2.9.112.msi) should give a constant crackling while the 2nd driver,  attached here, provided by support at antelope doesn't have the crackling but drops out into asynchronous audio every 20 seconds or so or perhaps longer for higher buffer sizes, then returns to sync soon after. For best performance speed step needs to be disabled and power saving on performance. It seems a little odd as it's only trying to stream a stereo file. Works fine with USB.

thanks Greg 

[Gregmac]

I should have mentioned there is a launcher that has to be installed before the unit hooks up

[Alberto_Sykes]

Gregmac, Thank you for posting in the Intel® Communities Support.

We will do further research on this matter, as soon as I get any updates I will post all the details on this thread.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[Ronny_G_Intel]

Hi Gregmac

I read through your post and I would really like to help but unfortunately, we don't have the 3rd party hardware available for issue replication.  The only recommendation I have for now is that you visit the following optimization guide: Windows Guide - Windows 10 Optimizations and Troubleshooting and try any applicable suggestion.

Regards,

Ronny G

[Gregmac]

OK Thanks Ronny G, I assumed that would be the case. Naturally having been a professional in the audio field for around 25 years I have done all the optimizations and a whole lot more and am aware of some of the potential problems with low latency audio. However this doesn't deal with the interruptions/problems that occur without changing the power mode or disabling speed-step. The fact that regardless of latency it's not possible to stream a simple stereo audio with the LAPQC71A over firewire whereas over USB it is fine, when using wifi or LAN. That is, when it is not disabled. There seems to be an issue with power distribution. Seems bizare considering the unit has a mega power brick.

On top of that for a given hardware those problems don't seem to exist to nearly such an extent using OSX, so probably an intel/microsoft dilemma. It's incredible that after over 20 years since I started on win 95 then 98 with audio, microsoft/intel have never bothered to solve the problem of providing a stable working environment without having to jump through hoops. Do you think they will ever get it together. Perhaps an option at boot up to prioritize media workstation function.

Really makes one want to move to OSX which it sounds like before to long will not be intel either

cheers Greg 

[Gregmac]

Hi Ronny, 

I've just opened my unit as there has been a problem with the ethernet  port not connecting. I get a message saying the cable wasn't connected and after trying everything I though I should check out the port on the inside for signs of damage. It turns out that there are 4  TVS diodes (transient voltage suppression diodes) at least 3 of which are damaged. Two are severely burnt and one appears not to be there bit no sign of burn out and one looks ok. Anyway I'm wondering are these easily replaceable and how do I find out the spec and service procedure on them if it turns they are not covered by warranty. Also is this likely to effect or have effected anything else? Could that possibly the source of the Thunderbolt problem. It's pretty strange as I don't even generally use this laptop on the internet, only for software installation and updates, so usually the ethernet port is not even plugged in

all the best Greg

[Ronny_G_Intel]

Hi Gregmac,

I would recommend that you contact the place of purchase and explain the issue that you are having. We dont provide any kind of service repair guides or specs for components at that level. 

On the other hand, I am going to be checking with the Product Team regarding your previous concerns and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

One more thing, I checked the SSU log file that you attached to this post and I see that your system is running BIOS version 120 and there is a more recent version 122 that you may want to try, here is the URL:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/29907/BIOS-Update-QCCFL357-?product=196641

Regards,

Ronny G

[Gregmac]

Hi Ronny, 

thanks very much for that. 

Yes I previously had the newer bios on but had changed it back to the old one just to see if it performed any different. The newer one is on again now but the problems are still all the same.

best regards Greg

[Alberto_Sykes]

Hello Gregmac, I just received an update on this matter.

Since BIOS version 0122 is already installed on the Intel® NUC, then we can try the following troubleshooting steps:

-Please install the latest version of the Thunderbolt™ 3 DCH driver which is 68:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/29835

-For testing purposes and if you have the option, of course, please try to test other models of Thunderbolt™ 3 to Thunderbolt™ 2 convertors. We are aware that these are not cheap, but if you can borrow one and test it may help to isolate the problem.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[Alberto_Sykes]

Hello Gregmac, I just wanted to check if the information posted previously was useful for you and if you need further assistance on this matter?

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[Alberto_Sykes]

Hello Gregmac, Since I have not heard back from you, we are closing the case, but if you have any additional questions, please post them on a new thread so we can further assist you with this matter. We recommend at this point to get in contact directly with the place of purchase to replace the Intel® NUC.

Regards,

Albert R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[Gregmac]

Sorry for the slow reply. Turns out there was a fault with the Laptop unrelated to the thunderbolt. The ethernet port had blown transient suppression diodes. The whole chassis and MB has been replaced. All the bios and drivers are up to date but the problem still persists. The manufacturers of the hardware say that there are settings in the bios that need to be changed. Other Audio interface manufacturers also recommend the same thing which mostly pertain to earlier models of 8th gen and earlier or desktops with separate thunderbolt cards. One of the options is to disable thunderbolt security but that is not possible in the LAPQC71A. I'm wondering if there is any possibility that some of the additional options could added in a future bios update? Otherwise this laptop works great as a portable audio workstation.

Best regards Greg Macmillan

[Gregmac]

I've finally worked out the best solution. By disabling C-states and other power  and processor scaling options in the bios by using the Aptio tools to modify hidden settings. It seems the problem is not with the 3rd party hardware/drivers but is an Intel design problem. In my opinion a fault. It seems odd that such a wide bandwidth and fast port otherwise performs worse that a USB port even at higher buffer settings. The options should be normally seen in the bios so as they can be changed as should the option to disable the security on the thunderbolt port.

Greg Macmillan