LED lights on HADES Canyon not working after BIOS update

[ScottyP]

I used Intel Driver and Support Assistant to update BIOS and drivers to NUC8i7HVK4 after system rebuild.

Now no LED's working at all, completely dark. (Skull, power and status lights)

Followed suggested steps:

1. Made sure the Software LED control is enabled in BIOS: 
2. checked that LED lights were disabled from the Tray Application, LED Manager for Intel® NUC. Please attach a picture of the settings you have applied to your Intel® NUC.
3. Checked that the LED Manager for Intel® NUC Service is installed and running. 

If left alone long enough the skull will flash in some sleep mode (proof LEDs still physically connected).

Tried disconnecting everything waiting 30min and rebooting.

No progress, suggestions?

Thanks

[Gaz2613]

Thank you for the update. I would appreciate if you could send me a copy of this BIOS to my email please so I can test it before you release. It would also be good to let us know for certain what caused the issues rather than just documenting what was fixed in the release notes.

Kind regards

Gareth

[Maria_R_Intel]

Hello @Gaz2613

We sent you a private message.

Best regards,

Maria R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Gaz2613]

Thank you @maria for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Regards

Gareth

[Gaz2613]

Bad news for me with the Intel provided 8065 BIOS. I re-enabled the HDMI CEC function in BIOS after flashing this new BIOS version in recovery and after an hour of use the issue has returned. I shutdown my NUC and all the LEDs except for the HDD LED stayed on and only way to recover was to remove the power cable and re-insert. I have stayed on this BIOS version but I have had to disable the HDMI CEC function again.
I am really disappointed.

[JochenK81]

Hello Maria_R_Intel,
it seems we are talking now about two different problems here. In my case the problem is that all leds doesn't work all the time. Only in power suspending mode the power button and the skull is working.

Best regards
Jochen

[Chris_V_Intel]

@Gaz2613 

Thanks for letting us know. That's certainly not good news.

We'll let the team working on this know.

Anyone else experience what @Gaz2613 did? Where the LEDs worked initially, but then failed again?

[Maria_R_Intel]

Hello @ScottyP,

Please let us know if you received the email we sent.

Hello @JochenK81,

We would like to suggest creating a new thread since you are experiencing a different behavior so we can exclusively work on that and help you with the most accurate troubleshooting.

Best regards, 

Maria R.  

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[JochenK81]

Hello @Maria_R_Intel,

i think i have the same issue than the most other user in this thread. So all my LEDs stopped working after the bios update. Only when my NUC turns into power saving mode the skull and the power button led is working normaly.

But i think the problem with HDMI CEC function that Gaz2613 mentionted sounds different.

Best regards

Jochen

[kankra]

@Maria_R_Intel @Chris_V_Intel It seems that Gaz2613 unintentionally hijacked the thread. He is referring to another problem with the LED lights, see here and here. Unfortunately, he reached your attention here at the wrong place.

Probably both problems have to be fixed with a BIOS update. Nevertheless, we should not mix different matters in one discussion. This is not at all helpful in fixing either problem.

I'm looking forward to the updated BIOS. Thanks.

[Gaz2613]

The issues are all related and all to do with the LEDs. If you have one of the issues chances are you have all of them. I have tested and have been able to replicate the issues. They all need treating as a single issue.

[Chris_V_Intel]

Hi guys,

If this issue started occurring since the BIOS was updated to HN 0064, then I think we can count them all as the same issue. 

@Gaz2613 Three questions.

1. When you disabled CEC, do the LEDs work properly, with the BIOS 8065?
2. Have you tried loading BIOS defaults, then changing settings? 
3. Have you tried a BIOS recovery, using BIOS 8065?

The answer to those questions will help determine how to proceed.

To all others, it seems 8065 works without issue. Is that statement correct?

[Gaz2613]

Hi @Chris_V_Intel thank you for looking into this with us. To answer your questions:

1. With CEC disabled in the NUC BIOS but still enabled on the HDTV the NUC starts up but LEDs did not start apart from HDD LED. This condition happens when left with power attached but NUC switched off for 12+ hours. However with CEC turned off in BIOS AND on the HD TV there are NO issues with LEDs whatsoever. I tested this with 0063 0064 and 8065.

2. I had all BIOS setting at defaults when testing with all three BIOS versions. Only setting changed was whether CEC was enabled or disabled.

3. Each BIOS used for testing was loaded to the NUC using power button recovery and defaults loaded afterwards.

I will try a separate test with CEC enabled in BIOS but disabled on the HD TV to see how it behaves.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Gareth

[William77]

Hello @Chris_V_Intel and thank you  for your interest about our issue.

the issues related to the leds are present both with Bios 8065  and with the previous one, nothing changed, the problem is NOT solved.

the problems occours random and are :

1. LEDS ON after shutdown

2. STARTUP with NO LEDS.

Now I try to disable  HDMI CEC in BIOS and on the TV (like @Gaz2613), to test if my NUC works with no issues....

Regards

William

[Chris_V_Intel]

Thanks @William77 & @Gaz2613. I want this to get fixed for you all!

What's interesting/annoying is that only one person in all our worldwide offices can reproduce this on her NUC! Thus, why I need to rely on you all to help me understand what's going on.

@Gaz2613 What's interesting is that you were able to see this issue on BIOS 0063 as we only heard it was an issue starting with BIOS 0064. However, if your issue truly is tied to CEC, I don't know that the scenario was tested.

@William77 Any update on your CEC testing?

To both of you, no matter how you "load" the BIOS, after the update is complete, please make sure you hit F2 to enter the BIOS, then select the F9 key (to load BIOS defaults), then select the F10 key(to save the BIOS defaults). Just in case.

Thanks again for the info, passing it on to the bug team. Please let me know if you have any more info pertinent to this issue.

[Gaz2613]

This info may help. I have been testing for the last couple of hours with CEC enabled in the BIOS (8065) and CEC disabled on the HD TV. So far LEDs are fine even after shutdown.

A way to test visually when the LEDs stop functioning is to set one of them to 'Breathing' in the LED Manager software. When the LEDs 'Freeze' the one set to breathing will stop breathing. This is a good indicator that the LEDs are in frozen state and will remain on when the NUC is powered off without having to guess by shutting down whether they will stay on or go off correctly.

Also I mentioned previously about a 'Brick' state the NUC can appear to be in. It's not actually bricked but rather a state I found can happen only when CEC is enabled on both the HD TV and in the BIOS and the power cord has been left connected and ON but the NUC powered OFF. This so called brick state is simply the power button failing to respond and power up the NUC. This is rectified the same way as the LED issues by removing and reinserting the power cord. What I find interesting is this behaviour doesn't happen with 8065 BIOS instead the power button will respond but LEDs will stay off. So something is changed in this new BIOS.

I think what makes the NUC behave in these strange ways is how it is handling the CEC signal coming FROM a connected screen. In my case an LG 4K TV. With the CEC setting enabled in BIOS and DISABLED on the TV I don't seem to have any issues.

[William77]

Hi @Chris_V_Intel  

I want to specify that I changed my NUC with a new one : I bought my 1st NUC in Dicembre 2020 and immediately gave me leds issues. I changed it with a new one in Genuary 2021, but issues remained. Both NUCs came with BIOS 0059. 

I tried my 1st NUC with BIOS 0059 and with BIOS 0064, and in both case leds issues occourred.

I tried my 2nd NUC with Bios 0059, with BIOS 0064 and with BIOS 8065 but it gaves me the same leds issues. 

Now I'm trying to test the NUC with HDMI CEC disabled both on TV and in BIOS 8065 but I cant' give you a prompt response because sometimes happens that NUC works fine for a week, so I want to give you an answer only after 8-9 days.

Bios is in default mode and I have not installed the leds manager software... I will let you know about the test with HDMI CEC disabled.

Thanks 

William  

[Chris_V_Intel]

Thanks again, guys.

As far as we know, besides a few one-off reports, we only started hearing about the LED issue when BIOS 0064 was released, that's why I'm focusing on 0064. If you were having issues before 0064, I really can't say what's going on as again, we only heard about widespread issues since 0064.

@Gaz2613 I'll pass your test along to the debug team. How often will the LEDs "freeze"? Also, is yours like @William77's where it will work for a while-he mentioned a week-then "freeze" again?

How often does that "brick" state happen? I've heard of it from other customers, but have never encountered it before, even though I used to use two of these machines every day for more than a year.

Lastly, that's so odd about CEC. Did you have these issues pre BIOS 0064?

@William77 Thanks for letting me know.

As I mentioned above, the fact that this is happening to you pre-BIOS 0064, I really am not sure what this could be. Please do let us know about your test with CEC off.

Lastly and this goes to everyone, but mainly you @Gaz2613, due to what you said about how you update the BIOS. I was just told that when you use the BIOS recovery process, you must follow that process by updating the exact same BIOS again, but this time you must use the F7 or EBU method. Recovery doesn't update the Embedded Controller (EC) on the board.

BIOS update instructions for your BIOS: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005636/intel-nuc.html 

[Gaz2613]

Hi @Chris_V_Intel the LEDs would usually freeze after around an hour or so. I have been testing the device with CEC enabled in the BIOS but disabled on my HD TV and I can confirm with 0063, 0064 and 8065 the LEDs function correctly on start up and shutdown. This tells me the problem may lie with the way the NUC handles the signal from a connected HDMI CEC enabled display.

My issue is pretty much consistent with tests I've ran where on shutdown the LED problem would appear after about an hour or so but the problem on startup where LEDs would stay off only happened after around 12+ hours of the NUC being off but still powered by the power brick. Occasionally if left for a few days the power on problem changed to the so called brick state where the power button would simply not respond. I have not been able to replicate this state on 8065 BIOS but can on 0063 and 0064.

I cannot confirm if I had the issues before 0064 as I updated the BIOS when I first purchased the NUC as part of setting it up and installing drivers. This is why I have been testing the 0063 BIOS as well because this version is what shipped with my NUC which does exhibit the issues from the tests I carried out.

Lastly as for BIOS testing I had my wires crossed about how I loaded the BIOS on my NUC. I always used the power button button menu followed by F7 which after checking is the Update BIOS option on the menu. I always loaded setup defaults afterwards and exit and saved and powered off the NUC before changing the CEC setting in the BIOS.

When we finally get to the bottom of this issue and get an updated BIOS is there any chance of a fix to restore previous LED config automatically after exiting the power button menu (ESC)? Only trivial but thought I would throw it in there.

[leadfalcon]

@Chris_V_Intel I recently reinstalled my NUC and ran the installation of BIOS 0064. The upgrade was from BIOS version 0034 from memory, though it could have been a little higher (maybe 0036~). Before the installation process, the LED's and the skull on top of the unit were working fine (on when the device is on, eyes flashing when device was sleeping, all off when the device was off). After the upgrade to BIOS 0064, the LEDs don't work when the unit is on, however still work when the unit is sleeping (skull on and eyes flashing) - I have a video of this behaviour if you need one (let me know). The upgrade process I followed was to download the Intel Driver Assistant from here (Intel® Driver & Support Assistant), then let it scan. It detected my BIOS was 0034 and downloaded the upgrade for 0064. I have to assume it downloaded this package (Download BIOS Update [HNKBLi70] (intel.com)) for my NUC (NUC8i7HVK) and ran it for me. I lost the info when I wiped & rebuilt my machine to test if windows was breaking the LEDs.

Info I can offer:

- During the BIOS installation process, after the last step of the upgrade, all the LEDS and skull (both outline and eyes) all flashed red on and off for 15 seconds, then the unit restarted. From this point, the LEDs stopped working as expected. 

- I have tried the BIOS reset method you mentioned (F2 > F9 > F10) and the issue is still occuring. I have also tried a clean reinstall of windows (just in case) and it's also still occuring.

- I would have tried to reinstall th BIOS from an earlier version, however the only version of the BIOS I could find to download was 0064.

- If you are struggling to repro the issue, I would be willing to send my unit in for you to inspect/test with?

[JochenK81]

Hello @Chris_V_Intel,
my issue is exactly the same as leadfalcon explained! But i have no problem with power button or LEDs working for a while like Gaz2613 is reporting.

I tryed to fix the problem already with downgrading to an older bios version and i have disabled the HDMI CEC function without any success.

Best regards
Jochen Kreb

[philaneous]

1. I have (2) Intel Hades Canyons and only (1) them experienced this exact issue.
2. After seeing multiple discussions of HN8065.bio from @Chris_V_Intel, I decided to call Intel support and request the BIOS file.
3. I flashed the unit with HN8065.bio by using F7 from the GUI based BIOS screen; however, after the unit rebooted, the LED lights still remained off.
4. I power-cycled the unit and the same issue – no LEDs anywhere (Power button, Skull, literally every LED was off).
5. I decided to power-cycle the unit by holding the power-button for (3) seconds to get into the Power Button Menu BIOS (with the USB plugged-in) and the LEDs came back on. I didn't re-flash the BIOS or any of the available options.
6. I was going to re-flash the unit via the Power Button Menu BIOS (F7); however, just by getting into the menu, this cleared the issue and brought the LED lights back on.
7. Literally, going into the Power Button Menu BIOS with the USB (HN8065.bio) brought my LEDs back on after flashing to HN8065.bio. Very odd behavior!