NUC 11 Enthusiast Thunderbolt Issue

[Stef500]

Hi I have NUC11PHKi7C unit.

I have a problem with the Thunderbolt Ports.

Sometimes, when I wake the computer up, the thunderbolt ports (both of them) are not powered.

I have to power off the device, unplug it, wait for 5s and plug it. Most of the time it fixes the issue. But sometimes not...

It's very annoying, and it seems that at least someone is having exactly the same trouble as I do: https://community.intel.com/t5/Intel-NUCs/NUC11PHKi7C-Thunderbolt-Issue/m-p/1386365/thread-id/91395

My monitor is plugged via usb-c and my 10gb lan also and both of them are having the same trouble.

Can you please help me ? 

PS: when I unplug the monitor and leave only the 10gb lan, it works most of the time.

However, when I plug both, I can't make it work when I start my NUC.

The only workaround I have found until now is: unplug the monitor, start the NUC. Wait until the OS is fully loaded and then plug the thunderbolt/usb-c monitor.

The monitor is an external one (using DP alt and usb-c powering). It works fine when I manage to make it start.

PS2: I'm under Linux Mint 20.2 and Windows 10 (dual boot) and I'm experiencing the same issue on both OS. It seems that the problem is powering the port under the Bios. BTW, I'm using the last revision of BIOS

[BHarr8]

Is your BIOS up to date? I had a very similar issue earlier this year but after a few BIOS updates I am not seeing the issue at all.

In my case I have Pebble 3 USB speakers and a portable monitor powered by the other port. For a while the monitor would not power on boot unless I plugged it in after booting.

[Stef500]

Hi BHarr8,

Yes I did the 0696 BIOS update (it's the last one from here: https://www.intel.fr/content/www/fr/fr/download/19729/bios-update-phtgl579.html). What is the version of yours ? 

Are you using the same computer as I do ? Do you have special power settings on the BIOS ?

The monitor is plugged on the front or the back side ?

Your monitor is only usb-c ? no other cable (even a power one ?).

Thanks in advance for your help. 

[BHarr8]

NUC11PHKi7C running BIOS 0069 and Windows 10 on latest build.

In the past it didn't matter. If the monitor was plugged into either the front or back, it would not power on during boot. Now it does work from either port.

Only one monitor. HDMI cable and USB C for power, it is a portable setup I move around a lot.

[Stef500]

It seems there is a problem with the power allocated to the usb-c devices.

I have 2 devices on the usb-c port: a thunderbolt 3 lan SFP+ device and the external monitor.

I have 3 monitors: 1 hdmi, 1 DP and the external one on usb-c

Here are my observations:

 - if I unplug the monitor, the LAN device is (most of the time) powered at the startup and I have to plug the monitor after the boot.

- if I plug both, the LAN device never gets powered and the screen either. When I reboot the device (no matter how many times), the LAN devices stays off (screen unplugged). I have to unplug the AC cord of the NUC, wait 30s and plug it to recover power in the LAN device.

- it doesn't matter which usb-c port is plugged (front or back). The result is the same anyway.

For the record, my bios power settings are max performance.

Can an intel rep please help me ? It's becoming VERY annoying...

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello @Stef500

Thank you for posting on the Intel® communities.

We understand that you are using dual boot "Linux Mint 20.2 and Windows 10". In order to set the right expectations, we would like to inform you that Intel hasn't validated Linux operating system (OS) yet for the Intel® NUC 11 Enthusiast Kit - NUC11PHKi7C. This is noted in the Supported Operating Systems for Intel® NUC Products.

Having said that, we will focus the initial troubleshooting on Windows to see if we can get an improvement first under this OS.

In case you haven't tried yet, please review the following suggestions:

• Make sure the OS is on the latest version 21H2 (Build 19044) and/or install any pending updates. Refer to Update Windows*.
• Download and install the Thunderbolt™ 3 and 4 DCH Driver for Windows® 10 for Intel® NUC Version 1.41.1193.0.
• Install the USB Type C Power Delivery Controller for Windows® 10 64-bit for Intel® NUC Version 1.0.10.2.
• Checked with the manufacturer of the Thunderbolt*/USB-C devices if there is any firmware, driver, or software available from their products that may help with this issue.
• You may also test if the behavior is the same if you set Thunderbolt as the "IGD Primary Video Port". To set this, please access the BIOS (Press F2 during POST) and go to Advanced > Video.
• Try a different Thunderbolt cable. We recommend using a certified Thunderbolt* cable. The length of the cable could also be a factor, so you may try one that is 60cm or shorter.

If the behavior persists, please provide us with the following information:

1- Is the behavior occurring since the first day that you have this configuration (NUC + USB-C display + Thunderbolt* 3 LAN SFP+ device)?

Or if this worked fine before, were there any hardware or software (Windows, BIOS, driver, or software updates) changes that might relate to the point when the issue started?

2- Maker and model of the Thunderbolt/USB-C devices. A reference link for those devices would be also helpful.

3- Just to make sure, is the USB-C display powered by the same USB-C cable that is connected to the NUC for video data/connection? If this is correct, are you able to test by connecting the display to a separate power source (e.g.: plugging it into an AC outlet?)

4- Under Windows, please run the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) to gather more details about the system:

• Download the Intel® SSU and save the application on your computer
• Open the application, check the "Everything" checkbox, and click "Scan" to see the system and device information. The Intel® SSU defaults to the "Summary View" on the output screen following the scan. Click the menu where it says "Summary" to change to "Detailed View".
• To save your scan, click Next and click Save.
• Once you have saved the file (.txt file), please attach it to your reply.

To upload and attach a file, use the "Drag and drop here or browse files to attach" option below the response textbox.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Stef500]

Hi AndrewG_Intel,

Sorry, I was on holidays and of course my problem is still very present.

First, I'm aware that you don't have validated Linux. However, the problem is totally the same between Linux and Windows, which makes me think that it's Bios related and not OS related.

I'm replying to your questions in red so that you can see directly my answers.

Advices:

In case you haven't tried yet, please review the following suggestions:

• Make sure the OS is on the latest version 21H2 (Build 19044) and/or install any pending updates. Refer to Update Windows*. => done already
• Download and install the Thunderbolt™ 3 and 4 DCH Driver for Windows® 10 for Intel® NUC Version 1.41.1193.0. => done already
• Install the USB Type C Power Delivery Controller for Windows® 10 64-bit for Intel® NUC Version 1.0.10.2. => done already
• Checked with the manufacturer of the Thunderbolt*/USB-C devices if there is any firmware, driver, or software available from their products that may help with this issue. => done already (this is the latest one for both)
• You may also test if the behavior is the same if you set Thunderbolt as the "IGD Primary Video Port". To set this, please access the BIOS (Press F2 during POST) and go to Advanced > Video. => done this and there is no difference
• Try a different Thunderbolt cable. We recommend using a certified Thunderbolt* cable. The length of the cable could also be a factor, so you may try one that is 60cm or shorter. => I've bought 3 different cables. I'm using Belkin ones that work correctly if and only if I plug the devices in the right order (cf. above). The behavior was exactly the same with all cables.

1- Is the behavior occurring since the first day that you have this configuration (NUC + USB-C display + Thunderbolt* 3 LAN SFP+ device)?

Or if this worked fine before, were there any hardware or software (Windows, BIOS, driver, or software updates) changes that might relate to the point when the issue started?

At first, I only had the Thunderbolt3 LAN SFP+ adapter. It would light up almost every time I launched the NUC and I had no other problems.
Then I bought the external display that plugs into the usb-c port. From that point on, the problems started: both the screen and the adapter would not turn on when I started the NUC. The only "solution" I found was to unplug the external screen before turning on the computer and then plug it back in once the OS is launched (it doesn't matter which OS because the problems are absolutely identical). If this method is applied, then the LAN adapter and the screen work perfectly normally.
If not, I have to unplug the NUC from the electrical power, wait 30s and apply the method described above again. It's as if the NUC doesn't have enough energy to power both devices and decides not to power either one at boot.

2- Maker and model of the Thunderbolt/USB-C devices. A reference link for those devices would be also helpful.

Screen LENOVO L15 : https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/monitors/home/66e4ucc1us?orgRef=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F

SFP 10gb adapter: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.html

3- Just to make sure, is the USB-C display powered by the same USB-C cable that is connected to the NUC for video data/connection? If this is correct, are you able to test by connecting the display to a separate power source (e.g.: plugging it into an AC outlet?)

That's exactly it: same cable for power and video data.
I've already tried to connect it to an external power source as well: the display is powered on startup, but the SFP+ adapter is not. I have to unplug the screen before starting the computer and then everything works again.

4- Under Windows, please run the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) to gather more details about the system:

• Download the Intel® SSU and save the application on your computer
• Open the application, check the "Everything" checkbox, and click "Scan" to see the system and device information. The Intel® SSU defaults to the "Summary View" on the output screen following the scan. Click the menu where it says "Summary" to change to "Detailed View".
• To save your scan, click Next and click Save.
• Once you have saved the file (.txt file), please attach it to your reply.

To upload and attach a file, use the "Drag and drop here or browse files to attach" option below the response textbox.

I can do that if you want, but if I plug in the monitor at startup, both devices are not powered and therefore are invisible in the Windows hardware manager.

If, on the other hand, I plug in the monitor only after Windows (or Linux) has fully booted, then everything works fine and the hardware manager will not show anything abnormal.

In my opinion, we can conclude that the problem is before the boot of the OS.

Do you still want me to run the diagnostic tool (when everything works and when nothing works?)

Again, IMHO, the problem is probably the power settings in BIOS (but I tried already all of them) or maybe the screen but it's working totally fine if you respect the right order. Also, if everything is powered correctly, and I only do a reboot then I don't have to unplug the screen. The problem appears if and only I do a cold boot (exactly like here : https://community.intel.com/t5/Intel-NUCs/NUC11PHKi7C-Thunderbolt-Issue/m-p/1386365/thread-id/91395).

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Stef500]

Hi AndrewG_Intel,

Sorry, I was on holidays and of course my problem is still very present.

First, I'm aware that you don't have validated Linux. However, the problem is totally the same between Linux and Windows, which makes me think that it's Bios related and not OS related.

I'm replying to your questions in red so that you can see directly my answers.

Advices:

In case you haven't tried yet, please review the following suggestions:

• Make sure the OS is on the latest version 21H2 (Build 19044) and/or install any pending updates. Refer to Update Windows*. => done already
• Download and install the Thunderbolt™ 3 and 4 DCH Driver for Windows® 10 for Intel® NUC Version 1.41.1193.0. => done already
• Install the USB Type C Power Delivery Controller for Windows® 10 64-bit for Intel® NUC Version 1.0.10.2. => done already
• Checked with the manufacturer of the Thunderbolt*/USB-C devices if there is any firmware, driver, or software available from their products that may help with this issue. => done already (this is the latest one for both)
• You may also test if the behavior is the same if you set Thunderbolt as the "IGD Primary Video Port". To set this, please access the BIOS (Press F2 during POST) and go to Advanced > Video. => done this and there is no difference
• Try a different Thunderbolt cable. We recommend using a certified Thunderbolt* cable. The length of the cable could also be a factor, so you may try one that is 60cm or shorter. => I've bought 3 different cables. I'm using Belkin ones that work correctly if and only if I plug the devices in the right order (cf. above). The behavior was exactly the same with all cables.

1- Is the behavior occurring since the first day that you have this configuration (NUC + USB-C display + Thunderbolt* 3 LAN SFP+ device)?

Or if this worked fine before, were there any hardware or software (Windows, BIOS, driver, or software updates) changes that might relate to the point when the issue started?

At first, I only had the Thunderbolt3 LAN SFP+ adapter. It would light up almost every time I launched the NUC and I had no other problems.
Then I bought the external display that plugs into the usb-c port. From that point on, the problems started: both the screen and the adapter would not turn on when I started the NUC. The only "solution" I found was to unplug the external screen before turning on the computer and then plug it back in once the OS is launched (it doesn't matter which OS because the problems are absolutely identical). If this method is applied, then the LAN adapter and the screen work perfectly normally.
If not, I have to unplug the NUC from the electrical power, wait 30s and apply the method described above again. It's as if the NUC doesn't have enough energy to power both devices and decides not to power either one at boot.

2- Maker and model of the Thunderbolt/USB-C devices. A reference link for those devices would be also helpful.

Screen LENOVO L15 : https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/monitors/home/66e4ucc1us?orgRef=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F

SFP 10gb adapter: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.html

3- Just to make sure, is the USB-C display powered by the same USB-C cable that is connected to the NUC for video data/connection? If this is correct, are you able to test by connecting the display to a separate power source (e.g.: plugging it into an AC outlet?)

That's exactly it: same cable for power and video data.
I've already tried to connect it to an external power source as well: the display is powered on startup, but the SFP+ adapter is not. I have to unplug the screen before starting the computer and then everything works again.

4- Under Windows, please run the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) to gather more details about the system:

• Download the Intel® SSU and save the application on your computer
• Open the application, check the "Everything" checkbox, and click "Scan" to see the system and device information. The Intel® SSU defaults to the "Summary View" on the output screen following the scan. Click the menu where it says "Summary" to change to "Detailed View".
• To save your scan, click Next and click Save.
• Once you have saved the file (.txt file), please attach it to your reply.

To upload and attach a file, use the "Drag and drop here or browse files to attach" option below the response textbox.

I can do that if you want, but if I plug in the monitor at startup, both devices are not powered and therefore are invisible in the Windows hardware manager.

If, on the other hand, I plug in the monitor only after Windows (or Linux) has fully booted, then everything works fine and the hardware manager will not show anything abnormal.

In my opinion, we can conclude that the problem is before the boot of the OS.

Do you still want me to run the diagnostic tool (when everything works and when nothing works?)

Again, IMHO, the problem is probably the power settings in BIOS (but I tried already all of them) or maybe the screen but it's working totally fine if you respect the right order. Also, if everything is powered correctly, and I only do a reboot then I don't have to unplug the screen. The problem appears if and only I do a cold boot (exactly like here : https://community.intel.com/t5/Intel-NUCs/NUC11PHKi7C-Thunderbolt-Issue/m-p/1386365/thread-id/91395).

Thanks in advance for your help.

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Stef500

We are checking this thread and we would like to know if you need further assistance. Please do not hesitate to contact us back if you have additional inquiries.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Stef500]

Yes please, my problem is still here: please check above

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Stef500

Thank you very much for your response and for all the detailed information.

Please allow us to investigate this further. We will be posting back in the thread once we have more details available or in case additional information is required from your environment (for instance, in case we still need you to run the Intel® SSU report; however, in the meantime, we'll work with the information you provided so far...)

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Maria_R_Intel]

Hello Stef500,

Thank you very much for your patience. We are still investigating this to provide you with the final response.

Regards,

Maria R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Stef500

The Intel® NUC has the capability to power both devices, but not during the cold boot process. This is how power profiles work due to the difference between the cold and warm boot processes.

If one Type-C port is drawing power it will be assigned the 3A power profile. When the second Type-C port connects it will be assigned the 0.9A power profile. In essence, there is no shared power bus. The port is in either 3A or 0.9A. Any device exceeding its respective power profile will be blocked.

When the system does a cold boot, that would need more power and might reach the voltage peak value at the same time. For power protection, it might let the system not boot, or the external device is not workable.

Our recommendation would be to use an external power source for both devices at the same time. However, it seems the SFP LAN adapter doesn't have the option of using an external power source. That is vendor hardware design, we can't change anything, but at least we suggest adding an external power for the USB-C monitor or a using different LAN adapter if possible.

Although the Intel® NUC will auto handshake each port to 3A or 0.9A when used at the same time, for the suggestion we would recommend plugging the 10G SPF device first, then the USB-C monitor (with external power and on), then switching the Intel® NUC power on.

If you have any other inquiries, please don't hesitate to contact us back.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Stef500

We are checking this thread and we would like to know if you were able to review our previous post. Please do not hesitate to contact us back if you have additional inquiries.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Stef500]

Hi AndrewG,
Thanks for the very detailed answer.
Unfortunately, I can't change the sfp adapter so the only solution I've found is to unplug the monitor until the boot of the OS is complete. I plug the monitor afterwards and everything is fine. It's annoying but it's the only way to make everything work without too much trouble.
Have a good evening.
Best,
Stef500

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Stef500

You are very welcome and thank you for your response.

We are sorry for the inconvenience you have experienced with this configuration. We understand that you will continue using for now the workaround that you found.

Having said that, we would like to know if you have any other inquiries or if we can help you with anything else. If not, would you agree to close the thread?

We will be looking forward to hearing back from you.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Stef500]

Hi AndrewG,
Sure you can close the thread.
Have a great day,
Best

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Stef500

Thank you for your response. We will proceed to close the thread now.

If you need any additional information, please submit a new question as this thread will no longer be monitored.

It has been a pleasure to assist you.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician