NUC 12 Extreme i9 - RAM XMP Question

[nicolasonline]

I have the NUC 12 Extreme i9 and the G.SKILL 32 GB 3200 MHz XMP RAM

It is listed as compatible on Intel Compatibility Page https://compatibleproducts.intel.com/ProductDetails?EPMID=216963

I have a couple of questions:

1. In the BIOS I get the option to select: XMP Profile 1 or XMP Profile 2 - What is the difference between both? And in relation to using it specifically with this NUC 12 Extreme should I select one versus the other?

2. In the BIOS I also get the option to select: Memory Voltage should I just leave that on Auto? Or does it need to be manually changed if I switch to a specific XMP Profile? I have the option to select anything between 1.20V all the way up to 1.40V.

Thanks a lot

[n_scott_pearson]

When you select one of the XMP Profiles, it should display the settings for that profile. Don't change anything else; simply select the profile and let it change all the parameters accordingly. But, I will always say leave everything at Auto and let the unit determine the best it can do.

...S

[nicolasonline]

Thanks for your reply regarding selecting the XMP profile and it automatically populating the rest.

But the reason I purchased this Intel validated G.SKILL XMP RAM is because of its increased performance in such a premium machine, so it would defeat the purpose in my specific use case of the purchase itself to just leave it on auto.

If anyone has some experience regarding XMP Profile 1 vs 2, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[n_scott_pearson]

Your processor is warranted to support DDR5 memory at up to 4800 MT/s or DDR4 memory at up to 3200 MT/s. You are limited to DDR4 memory with this particular Compute Module. As is always the case, there is no guarantee that any higher speeds are going to work. Still, with the DDR5 capability, I would expect the (XMP-based) overclocking performance with DDR4 memory to be better that the 3200 MT/s that is validated by Intel. Now, this will be limited by the performance of the individual processor's memory bus controllers, the performance of the individual Compute Module's memory buses (including its noise immunity and the effectiveness of the Memory Reference Code included in the particular BIOS in play), as well as the performance of the individual DIMMs selected. Remember too that the fact that this might be a 'premium' solution does not mean that it is infinitely overclockable.

Under normal circumstances, when Auto is used, the BIOS will attempt to utilize the XMP profile with the highest settings (in your case, I presume 6000). If the memory controllers (etc.) cannot be initialized at these settings, the BIOS will automatically back off to the secondary profile (in your case, I presume 4800). If this is detected to not work either, the BIOS will automatically back OFF too to the processor's default settings (3200 in this case). If this doesn't work, I believe it even tries backing off to the DDR4 minimum settings (namely 2133).

If, with Auto, it achieves only 4800 and not the SODIMM modules' 6000 capability and you are truly determined to try to do better, there are a few things you need to understand: (1) utilizing XMP profiles is already technically a form of overclocking and you could be voiding your warranty by proceeding and (2) through overclocking, it is possible to permanently damage the hardware. If you are determined to proceed, then you should manually select the 6000 XMP profile and test whether the system will POST with this profile. After determining (by trying) that it doesn't work with this selection - and understanding that this is the truly dangerous part - you can try playing with the individual settings of this profile to see if you can get a better result.

I will stop here. I do not have any of these SODIMMs, so I cannot discuss the XMP profile particulars. Perhaps someone else has...

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[nicolasonline]

@n_scott_pearson first of all thank you very much for this wealth of information and for taking the time to write it all out, it's very much appreciated. 

I think it's becoming clear to me as you said that Intel's compatibility list tests the components at Stock Speed even though some may be rated as compatible with Intel's very own XMP. And I think this is what's confusing frankly, either by design or as a failure in marketing and communication. When you have full section on intel's own website like this https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html dedicated to the benefits of XMP. 

The RAM I purchased was only one of 20 compatible products with XMP at 32GB on Intel's compatibility list for the NUC12DCMi9, so I did go out of my way to acquire said modules. They should at least include an asterisk at the bottom of that page saying the compatiblity for RAM with XMP is only tested at stock speeds and that XMP could void the warranty. Being clear and upfront about it, rather than having to dig through EULA's and Warranty section fine-prints which realistically no one reads. Especially when Intel XMP is so prominently marketed. 

One of the main issues is after knowing of the risks of XMP, I am not willing to give either one a try and "Save & Exit" in the BIOS as it's indeed a relatively pricey set of gear. I am just frankly a bit frustrated at Intel's lack of clear communication regarding this matter. As I could have purchased RAM with faster base CL timings and without XMP, rather than having gone through the time and effort to acquire those. 

Thanks again for your time and explanations. 

[Gintama69]

Got NUC 9 Extreme i9 yesterday, but RAM XMP isn't working properly.. meh

Everything works fine other than RAM XMP, it's a minor issue but shouldn't be happening so bit annoying.

My RAM is 32GB(2x 16GB) Kingston HyperX Impact 2666C15 (Model#: HX426S15IB2K2/32), it was the fastest DDR4 SODIMM available when I bought it ~1.5 years ago and it worked fine running at 2666C15 speed automatically on all other devices I've tried so far..

But the RAM runs at 2666C16 speed(instead C15) when it's set to Auto or XMP, which is just weird.. (it clearly shows up as C15 @ XMP-2666 even on CPU-Z)

I'm sure i can get it run C15 by manually adjusting the Cas Latency but I really shouldn't have to..

i.e. that's why XMP Profile options are there..

I just hope there aren't any more issues like this..

*Unrelated to this topic, but my main concerns with NUC 9 Extreme atm are:

1. Graphics Cards compatibility for NUC 9 Extreme has NOT been updated properly on Intel site, https://compatibleproducts.intel.com/ProductDetails?EPMID=216963

- Only 9 different cards are listed there, but I know for a fact plenty other cards can be installed on this NUC.. such as Asus RTX2060 Mini, Asus RTX2070 Mini, Asus RTX3060Ti Mini, Asus RTX3070Ti Turbo, Asus RTX3080 Turbo, Asus RTX3080Ti Turbo etc (not 100% sure about the last one)

2. Are we gonna get new BIOS update on NUC 9 Extreme to support the upcoming Intel i9 13900(or 13900T), i7 13700(or 13700T), etc processors?

- I sincerely hope we do, because all motherboard manufacturers release new BIOS to support the new processors when it can supported for obvious reasons.

- Since NUC 9 Extreme comes with Z690 chipset motherboard, it can definitely support all upcoming Intel 13th gen processors, and I want to upgrade my i9 12900 to i9 13900(or 13900T).

[n_scott_pearson]

The XMP Profiles are the exclusive domain of the memory manufacturer. Intel has no control over what they deliver in the SPD. In cases where there is an obvious error, Intel will inform the manufacturer of the issue, but understand that Intel only tests the memory that is provided to them by the manufacturers. If the manufacturers don't provide sufficient samples to intel, there is the possibility of none being available during NUC validation and thus no chance of this memory showing up in the compatibility lists.

In the same vein, Intel tests what graphics cards have been provided to them. If there are insufficient samples, well, not on the list. As for longevity, Intel certainly does not continue to update the compatibility lists with any vigor - and this is someplace where I think improvements are required. I have, on multiple occasions, asked for customer-reported compatibility information to be included in the compatibility lists, but see little progress. Sadly, the TMEs don't seem to have the time for this. Too much focus on the next things and not enough on the current things.

...S

[nicolasonline]

As you said I've reached out to the memory manufacturer, in this case G.SKILL. Unfortunately with their poor combination of technical documentation online and their lack of customer service responsiveness, it has led me to a lot of trial and error with some positives and negatives.

In case someone is searching for this and stumbling upon this, please find the following information:

Positive findings:

-In the case of using the NUC12DCMi9 with the G.SKILL 32 GB 3200 XMP version, going into the BIOS and setting the XMP to XMP Profile 1 is the optimal choice and yields the 18-18-18-43 timings in CPU-Z. 

-Leaving it set the XMP Set to Auto, defaults to SPD values of 24-22-22-52. 

-There is a clear advantage to setting it XMP Profile 1 (thought it is possible through some of my research that the RAM modules feature "auto-overclocking" and might just jump to the appropriate timings when needed, but more testing will need to be done to confirm that)

For the sake of due diligence as a final step I tried setting it to XMP Profile 2 to get a reading with CPU-Z just out of curiosity, but unfortunately and almost expectedly the NUC failed to boot with the blinking lights.

 @n_scott_pearson would you know of a way to reset the BIOS in an easy way to be able to boot back into the NUC and adjust the settings accordingly to Auto or XMP Profile 1? I have another pair of RAM modules, do you know if replacing the RAM with another pair would revert the settings to the default of the new RAM?

Thanks a lot for your conitnued feedback regarding this.

Again to be clear for anyone researching this DO NOT set the to XMP Profile 2.

[n_scott_pearson]

Easiest way is to enter BIOS Setup from the Power Button Menu and then either change the individual parameter or use F9 to reset the BIOS to its Setup Defaults.

To get into the Power Button Menu, power on the NUC holding the power button down for 3 full seconds. After a short wait, teh Power Button Menu should appear.

I have no idea whether changing the SODIMMs will cause this parameter to reset, but it seems like a logical response and it wouldn't hurt for you to try it. Seems like a lot of work if you have the bottom installed, especially if you have a H chassis (i.e., with bay for 2.5" SATA drive).

Hope this helps,

...S

[nicolasonline]

Thanks @n_scott_pearson turns out I just needed to remove the BIOS jumper and reset the BIOS to default settings. 

Upon going into Windows again, thought I'd test my two different RAM modules on Auto. 

Sorry to bother you with this, but you really seem to know your Memory tech, I attached an image comparing both RAM modules I have, do you have any input as to which might be better performing? (things like Memory Controller frequency are double in one and all the timing numbers). Which would you go with? 

Thanks a lot

[n_scott_pearson]

Sorry, I can't answer that. Best way to figure this out is to simply run a performance test with each of these pairs of SODIMMs installed and measure the difference. There are articles on the Tom's hardware site regarding these tests.

...S

[nicolasonline]

Ok thanks a lot @n_scott_pearson will be doing exactly that.

Actually I will be doing a full test on different RAM modules as no one has really done that before for the NUC 12 Extreme. It's the only piece of the puzzle where information is a bit fuzzy as to what is at the top of the pile. Whilst doing some research and seeing what other NUC 12 Extreme users are reporting it's clear that Memory is not running at spec on the 12 Extreme (whereas they are on the 11 Extreme) Not sure if it's a BIOS or Hardware issue.

Nonetheless, will be getting my hands on a few modules to test out and do a PSA for anyone researching this as to what's the best performing RAM including:

-Mushkin Redline 32GB CL16 @ 1.35 Volts

-Crucial Ballistix 32GB CL16 @ 1.35 Volts

-Corsair Vengeance 32GB CL 22 4000 series

-Kingston HyperX 32GB CL 22 25600

I will report back here for anyone who stumbles upon this.