NUC10i5FNH temperatures and fans

[madhatter77]

Hello!

I have a the above mentioned NUC running for a couple of weeks now and I have observed in this time:

a) it is very loud on the default BIOS settings and CPU temperatures data in HWiNFO64 shows red numbers and thermal throttling all the time. When HWiNFO shows red numbers at no particular workload that can't be right and normal - I think processor hitting limits should be only an exception, not when loading into windows or starting Defender quick scan for example. It thermally throttled very soon after starting benchmark stgress tests -  again turning everything red in HWiNFO.

b) I have used fan settings from @n_scott_pearson (disable fan off, 68C, 20%, 4%) AND lowered the PL1 and PL2 to values described in spec. sheet of the processor taken from the Intel website. The specs say TDP is 15W and charts in spec sheet say PL1 should be 15W and PL2 should be 15 * 1,25. With these settings NUC is bearable most of the time and tamperatures stay in the black, not red. With these settings at idle (while reading a website) it can go down to 37, but mostly stays in 40-55. If I leave the computer it soon starts spinning the fans and temps go higher but never to the limits - max was 88 during one week of operation.

c) NUC goes to sleep but half-wakes all the time, spinning up fans for periods of time (minutes). I discovered that is connected to "modern standby".

I see it as a problem: NUC with settings described under b) mostly stays relatively cool and quiet with most things I do (Office software, Adobe apps - but nothing too heavy - the most work it does is moving bunch of vectors with effects round and applying effects in Illustrator). Soon after I leave the computer for a while fans go up to moderately to very audible levels, maximum sometimes. The same happens when NUC goes to sleep: it sleeps and the power button flashes - the cooling fan is on but at a minimum. Then after a while the power button stops flashing and the fans go louder to very audible levels and stay that way. The monitor doesn't turn on - it looks like it sleeps but in fact it is working heavier than when I was working with it. The fans subside eventually and power button either stays on (monitor is off all the time and doesn't turn on until I "wake" the computer) or starts flashing again at which point NUC is the most quiet - although fan remains on even when power button is flashing ans thus signaling it is in deep sleep mode. Fans go completely off only if NUC is shut down.

So my questions are:

1. Are temperatures, processor thermal throttling and very high fan speeds when BIOS defaults are used normal behaviour?

2. Where do the default "Power" settings of 30 for PL1 and 64 for PL2 come from? Neither number can be seen on spec sheets. Spec sheet for NUC gives us the number 25W and the spec sheets for CPU give us the number 15W. The default BIOS numbers seem to be to high for 10th gen. i5 as it hits 100C and is thermally throttled even when computer is loading windows.

3. What is going on with "modern standby" behaviour and with heavy load of the system during what is supposed to be sleep state? I have nothing special on my machine but external WD disk, Office software and Adobe software.

[LeonWaksman]

Hello @madhatter77 

My NUC FN was working exactly as described in your post (noisy fluctuating cooling blower and rising CPU temperatures).  I made the following changes in BIOS and now I have NUC completely quiet:

1. In Performance > Processor - disable Intel Turbo Boost Technology (In type of work you are doing, the drop in performance is negligible)

2. Cooling - Fan Off capability > disabled; Processor 68, 25, 3; Motherboard 68, 25, 3

3. I didn't like the Modern Standby Mode (it never worked good for me). So I've changed in Power > Secondary Power Settings the sleep mode to Legacy S3 Standby. If you decide to change the sleep mode like I did, without need to reinstalling Windows, you need first, set to Windows boot mode to SAFE . Then you may enter BIOS and change the Sleep Mode from Modern Standby to Legacy S3. Click on F10(y) to save the new settings and exit to Windows. Once in Windows, change again the boot mode to NORMAL.

Leon

[madhatter77]

Thanks for reply @LeonWaksman !

TURBO BOOST: I don't think disabling turbo boost is the right answer for this - yes, if I accept this is a failed product. The drop was visible with moving more complex vector objects that have various effects applied for instance. And it bugs me that a CPU's design feature does not work.

FANS: Your fan settings are fine too, I nevertheless chose to have a stronger response with 4% increase to cool down the spikes in temp faster. Your suggestions or @n_scott_pearson 's work great for me and the system while I work is great. I use your suggestion of b ase speed as I think it brings the averagemtemps down a bit further although Scott's base setting of 20% fan speed is really silent.

MY SOLUTION: ... to bring temps down was lowering the Power limit 1 and 2 to specs that are in the CPU info pdf by Intel (tldr 15w PL1, 19W PL2, 28s Tau (I use 8s though). This makes a respectable computer unlike what it comes out of the box. 

What remains a problem is that computer is louder when I am not at it working than when I do work. That is probably software problem, ie. Windows. The problem extends to "sleep" time when fans tend to whir up to maximum and power draw and tempr reach the highest points - after BIOS modifications mentioned above temps go to 88 when I'm not working on computer (and reach max 75 when I am working).

That, I think, is some **bleep**ty behaviour. And it's mostly Microsoft's fault as far as I can understand this.

Also I am really surprised by the default Power settings and what they do to my specimen of NUC. Why are the setting as they are and where do the values come from. Intel technical papers state different values. Does Intel consider these mobile processors are in a better environment int he NUC case with better cooling than laptops and sort of "overclocks" them? I don't think they are succesful in that. I would expect more conservative values out of the box. If it was my father's computer he would siletntly suffer the behaviour for a while and just change the computer and never choose Intel again if the high fan volume because of overheating processor because of too high power limits would bug him. 

Regarding Changing windows sleep from BIOS - What do you mean with "changing Windows boot mode to Safe"? Can you elaborate on that just a bit?

Thanks

[LeonWaksman]

Hi @madhatter77 

"Regarding Changing windows sleep from BIOS - What do you mean with "changing Windows boot mode to Safe"? Can you elaborate on that just a bit?"

As I've mentioned above, the sleep mode can be changed without corrupting Windows boot, only after setting Windows to SAFE boot mode. Before starting this procedure, I advise to create full backup image of your drive, just in case that something goes wrong. The same procedure should be used in case that you decide to return to the default setting (i.e. Modern Standby):

1. While in Windows, press Windows key + r. Run msconfig
2. Chose Boot tab and enable Safe boot. Reboot your system. 
3. During system boot enter Bios again. Now you can change the sleep mode. Click on Power tab. Secondary Power settings > Sleep Type set to Legacy S3 Standby. Save the settings and exit from BIOS (disregard any warning you see).
4. While in Windows, press Windows key + r. Run msconfig
5. Chose Boot tab and uncheck Safe boot. Reboot your system. 

Leon

[madhatter77]

Thanks @LeonWaksman for your suggestion. Will maybe try.

Would this legacy s3 sleep be a problem for Windows remote desktop? Can you try and wake up your system with https://www.depicus.com/wake-on-lan/wake-on-lan-gui

This computer is sometimes accessed from outside because one client enables me to access his files only from the IP adress of my home office. Yes, VPN is another option but windows remote desktop is easyer and enough for those instances.

[LeonWaksman]

@madhatter77 

Yes, the NUC is accessible by Remote Desktop after setting the sleep mode to Legacy S3 Standby. Can't verify the WOL, since I;m not using Depicus  app. and I'm not familiar with WOL process.

Leon

[madhatter77]

Also if @n_scott_pearson as someone who seems to have a deeper insight into these little machines, or anyone at Intel support that has any idea past reccomendation to load default settings, could comment the Power limit settings in BIOS? Would really appreciate that!

Firstly I suspect there is a mistake in BIOS in text that describes Power limit 1 (it is, I suspect, the text that should go as a description under Tau, the last entry that determines how long should PL2 be in effect). It says under PL1 that the value is set in Seconds. Which doesn't make sense. Also hardware monitor after changes clearly shows PL1 is set in Watt.

Secondly, more important question - where do the default values in this section come from? They are 30 and 64 respectively with Tau 0 seconds. All the technical data in CPU pdf suggest that this 10th gen i5 CPU should have 15W and 1,25*15W set as PL1 and PL2 with 28 seconds reccomended valuefor Tau. Is this limit higher because it is a desktop and it is considered that it can work at higher power level? Personally I think it is a mistake, because if it constantly hits 100 degrees C it can't work with such power limits.