NUC11BTMi9 Blue-ray UltraHD PowerDVD14 cannot play due to SGX error

ToddInMN · ‎01-05-2022

I researched on the https://compatibleproducts.intel.com/ProductDetails?EPMID=208222

page, found and purchased:

Pioneer

BD/DVD/CD Writer

BDR-XD07J-UHD

Intel Validated

Albeit the J model is Japan market, in US it is BDR-XDO7-UHD

After a small hassle of downloading the PowerDVD14 app that was included with the player, and claims to support playing UHD disks, and installed the entire Cyberlink Suite that came with the player via oem key.

I ran PowerDVD14 and clicked play on a UltraHD Blue-ray disk, a pop-up reports

Message makes little sense, I right-clicked PowerDVD, more..., and picked Run as Administrator.
(I did search Cyberlink, found a patch for PowerDVD14 for Windows 10, tried installing that - wouldn't even start, so reinstalled Cyberlink Suite/PowerDVD14 again, reregistering with same oemkey again... no difference.)

Selecting Install attempts to update this with an prompt for Admin pop-up app, clicked Ok, and got this message:

There is no BIOS setting for SGX.

Searching everywhere, online, Intel, I found one retailer that claimed a list of all features that came with the kit listing this one:
- Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX) Included

So my question - can someone answer definitively yes or no -

Does the NUC11BTMi9 straight out of the box with Windows 10 Pro (all updates), support the BDR-XDO7-UHD drive listed as "Intel Validated" using the Cyberlink PowerDVD 14 that is shipped with it to play UltraHD Blue-ray disks?

I assumed that if Intel claims a drive is validated, that all the functions that drive are supported in the unit as it is - considering it does not disclose anywhere a better video card is required, and the built-in Intel® UHD Graphics by name suggests it is supported...

I found someone with the same issue on different NUC, and the Intel moderator replied: "Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX) feature is not supported by the NUC11PHKI7CA"

So - considering again, Intel validated a UHD optical drive that requires SGX:
I have to confirm, please someone tell me I just need a better app or something.

Intel - can you please tell me how you validated the BDR-XDO7J-UHD optical drive on the NUC11BTMi9?

The disk I am trying to play is the Ultra HD disk from "Avengers Infinity War 4K Ultra HD + Blu Ray" , brand new from Amazon, North America Region encoded, and claiming 4K Ultra HD with Dolby ATMOS.

I recently installed an 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos speaker setup with my Sony 4K TV and specifically bought this Intel NUC11BTMi9 brand new to be my new Media system.
I am planning on upgrading to a RTX3060 ti or RTX3070 for gaming when prices are closer to suggested retail.

Thank you,
Todd in MN

JosueO_Intel · ‎01-06-2022

Hello ToddInMN,

Thank you for posting on the Intel communities. I am sorry to hear that you are having issues with your Intel® NUC and the Pioneer BDR-XD07J-UHD.

I will proceed to check the issue internally and post back soon with more details.

Regards,

Josue O.

Intel Customer Support Technician

JosueO_Intel · ‎01-07-2022

Hello ToddInMN,

In this case, could you please confirm if the Intel® Software Guard Extensions configuration is enabled in the BIOS? You can find it under the security tab.

If it wasn’t enabled, please do it and try to use the application.

Regards,

Josue O.

Intel Customer Support Technician

ToddInMN · ‎01-07-2022

Hello Josue,

Would you like to tell me how to find these settings - or - how to get the BIOS fixed so I can enable this?

I searched all BIOS screens, and found nothing related to SGX - otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Here are camera captures of my Security tab and a few more

(Seems they rotated after loading - they were not rotated when uploaded):

Nothing on Security tab, there is a Security Features tab with drop-downs - but no SGX.
my BIOS is apparently not like yours:

And the video page - I am using the built-in UHD supporting HDMI - no video card yet, but specs should show 4k at 60Hz and I asked and no-one said I need a card...

...

You can clearly see my Bios Version: DTGL79.0050.2021.0802.1933

I ran the Intel online support, and there might have been a BIOS upgrade in it.

I read another post somewhere here about under-clocking in an i7NUC11 I think, and that a BIOS update removed under-clocking, which is fine for me - but, there was mention of the topic of SGX mentioned as Intel's reason for that change.
DID Intel remove this SGX setting/ability in my NUC11BTMi9? My model wasn't mentioned so no idea...

Please help me figure this out... if I cannot find out soon, I may have to return this - which will really be sad as I searched for weeks to find it as it seems the perfect size for my Media Gaming PC. Doesn't make sense to pay the amount I have for a PC that cannot even play UHD 4K Blue-ray disks... It plays regular Blue-ray disks fine - but I owned a blue-ray player, bought the BDR-XDO7J-UHD just for the ability to play 4K blue-ray movies.

Thanks,

Todd

JosueO_Intel · ‎01-07-2022

Hello ToddInMN,

Thank you for the information provided. I will proceed to check the issue internally and post back soon with more details.

Regards,

Josue O.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Ronny_G_Intel · ‎01-11-2022

Hi ToddInMN,

Unfortunately, support for Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX) has been removed from 11th generation NUCs.

I would recommend that you check the following references for further information:

https://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=26690

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/11th-gen-cpu-why-no-SGX/m-p/1248815

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Regards,

Ronny G

ToddInMN · ‎01-11-2022

An apology is not required - a way to return this product that cannot be used as intended IS required.

Your support department should have known of this - AND - ALL 11th Generation products Must have disclaimers stating SGX has been removed and playing 4k UHD Blue-ray disks no longer possible, and I'd include the above hyperlinks as well.

This is a very major road-block for people wishing to use the NUC systems with TVs - which I would hazard to guess was one of the reasons NUCs were created.

I purchased the NUC11BTMi9 based on Intel's support for UHD, purchasing the model listed on the Intel Compatibility page:
Optical Drives-

Pioneer

BD/DVD/CD Writer

BDR-XD07J-UHD

Intel Validated

One of the most popular 4k UHD drives sold. Clearly your testers should have tested UHD 4k movies and failed this drive!

Please explain how Intel can certify this drive as 'Intel Validated' which implies fully supported and functional - when it does not.

This drive should be removed from your list of compatible devices - AND -
notification added to all 11th Generation CPU product descriptions, clearly stating something like:
"Notice: Intel has dropped support for Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX) on all 11th generation CPUs and thus all 11th generation based products including this product will not support UHD 4k Blue-ray disk use."

As someone who has experience working in customer service since the 80s - I am hoping you seriously take action on this.

I would love to return all of this and get my money back - but BandHPhoto.com told me recently that they will only accept returns on items return 'unopened'...

I am an upset and unimpressed Intel stock-holder (for more than 5 years), and also a reseller; now stuck with a product that I paid more than a thousand+ dollars for. So now what... Guess I make due with something that won't work for it's intended purpose.
Too bad I bought everyone in my family new Intel based computer last year.

BHarr8 · ‎01-12-2022

I will answer the question about how this could have happened.

If its not 12th gen (or newer), don't expect anything other than terrible support.

I'm still waiting on a BIOS update for my NUC9i9QNX that fixes everything they disabled in the last BIOS update, but I know there is no chance this will happen. Intel had no issue charging me extra for all of the K features like clock control, voltage control, XMP profile support ..... but when they removed all of this their answer was "its more secure", as if that is somehow a fix. Allegedly an attacker can use low voltage for a very targeted attack, but what kind of access would an attacker need to pull off an attack like that? Yeah, I'm already boned at that point so this entire excuse is BS.

ToddInMN · ‎01-12-2022

BHarr8,
I read a POST, maybe yours, well like yours, it was a NUC11 ?? i7 (not a Beast Canyon) if I remember, about under-clocking to drop thermal temperatures - it mentioned that Intel removed SGX due to security vulnerabilities.

As a guy with 8 years computer hardware engineering experience - my wild guess would be poor design and the low voltages affected the chips, causing them to fail to require decryption of the SGX content, maybe allowing someone to embed commands in UHD disks that without the security, could compromise the system.? possible... hackers are a lot smarter than me!... who knows.

So - Intel, remove the under-clocking and leave SGX? - no, 'too dangerous'... sometimes management hears only part of the story and makes decisions - easier to remove both than leave SGX and not allow it to be under-powered... or redesign the security chip which may require redesign of the motherboard - not going to happen, no surprise on that possibility.

12th gen fix? We'll see.

ToddInMN · ‎01-12-2022

UPDATE:

Intel,

I called and provided BandHPhoto with this post and your reply.

They were quite surprised to learn, and see your statement (proof) of this problem, and were very nice and allowed me to return the products... I will continue buying there - cannot get better service than an honest company.

I would still seriously suggest you notify your marketing to remove the optical drive listed as Intel Validated for Intel NUC11BTMi9

Pioneer

BD/DVD/CD Writer

BDR-XD07J-UHD

Intel Validated

from your compatibility page,

and this NEEDS to be added to your product information pages for all NUC 11th Generation products including this one:

Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX) No

Why have a No on some products and not include it on this one - it WOULD HAVE stopped me from buying this and save me from this nightmare!

Trivia - why I type so much:

I've Beta-tested for since 1989, various software companies including Microsoft for every operating system released (home and servers) until the Beta opened, and then Windows 10 and 11...

I also helped Intel test the very first Intel Pentium™ Overdrive™ processor in the mid 90s - I had to buy a special new motherboard for this... (If you still have the list, look up my name...). It helped me finish my Bachelors of Science in CS.

I like helping companies do better with recommendations - and support. I'd still help Beta for Intel if it were open... got a next gen NUC12 I can test out for you??

Have a great day - and I will always continue to look forward to Intel INTC continuing to go up and loving those dividends!

JosueO_Intel · ‎01-12-2022

Hello ToddInMN,

Thank you for the feedback provided, we are checking the issue internally and we will post back soon with more details.

Regards,

Josue O.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Ronny_G_Intel · ‎01-13-2022

Hi ToddInMN,

Please accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience and let me tell you that your feedback has escalated up to the Product Team for consideration and I will be follow-up on it so that we prevent this situation from happening again.

Again, I am really sorry to hear your disappointment with the product and that you ended up returning it, I hope you give us another opportunity in the future.

Regards,

Ronny G

ToddInMN · ‎01-14-2022

Hi Ronny,

I appreciate your reply. I hope you update your marketing materials so this doesn't happen to others.

I have a question:

I learned after returning PowerDVD21 while checking their support page for it, that a recent patch states:

Adds Blu-ray movie/DVD/media file playback compatibility with the new Intel 12th Generation Alder Lake CPUs.

While It doesn't mention UltraHD - just specific support for your new CPUs.

Can you find out - is there some 'new' Intel firmware in 12th gen Alder Lake that will allow Ultra HD support?
There has to be something different that they would have to update their app for the new CPUs - hoping, maybe???

I would think Intel would want to somehow remedy the SGX removal with some 'new' better way to allow Ultra HD certificate resolution to allow playback? I will ask on their forum also, but since this is a hardware/firmware related issue, figured someone there should know.

Thanks,

Todd

JosueO_Intel · ‎01-13-2022

Hello ToddInMN,

If you need any additional information, please submit a new question as this thread will no longer be monitored.

Regards,

Josue O.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Ronny_G_Intel · ‎01-14-2022

Hi @ToddInMN,

Allow me some extra time to do more research, I will reach out to the Processors team and see if they can provide some clarity on this topic.

Hi @JosueO_Intel,

I agree with you that this is more of a Processors question and that a new post should be created but let me do some more digging and I will take care of this issue.

Thanks,

Ronny G

Ronny_G_Intel · ‎01-14-2022

Hi @ToddInMN,

After checking with the Processors and NUC team (SGX is a Processor feature), the answer is basically the same, 11th and 12th Processors no longer provide SGX technology.

Users who use devices with 11th generation or newer Intel processors wont be able to play Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs on these devices because of the missing SGX technology.

I don't have any other details to add from the Intel side since we just removed this feature, I dont know if Cyberlink* has any workaround, patches, or any other way to mitigate this issue. my understanding is that there isnt, this is based on the FAQ provided by Cyberlink*: Customer Support - Why can’t I play Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on my new Intel CPU (11th generation or above) platform that does not support Intel SGX feature? Why are Ultra HD Blu-ray discs no longer playable after related Intel drivers and the Windows OS were updated on older platforms that support the Intel SGX feature? | CyberLink

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Ronny G

GWN21 · ‎01-15-2022

Just saw this yesterday on https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/

New Intel chips won't play Blu-ray disks due to SGX deprecation (bleepingcomputer.com)

Good write up.

JosueO_Intel · ‎01-20-2022

Were you able to check the previous post?

Let us know if you still need assistance.

Best regards,

Josue O.

Intel Customer Support Technician

DeividA_Intel · ‎01-25-2022

Hello ToddInMN,

We have not heard back from you, so we will close this inquiry. If you need further assistance or if you have additional questions, please create a new thread and we will gladly assist you.

Regards,

Deivid A.

Intel Customer Support Technician

ToddInMN · ‎01-26-2022

HI,

I typed a nice reply, got distracted, came back and login session expired - and select all, copy doesn't work on expired login session replies so lost my nice reply.

Basically - I returned everything - really wanted to keep it, it was a nice price for such performance but felt extremely disrespected by the fact the product info page did not, AND STILL DOES NOT state SGX is no longer available. It should be listed below:

Security & Reliability

Intel® AES New Instructions	Yes
Intel® Software Guard Extensions (Intel® SGX)	No

And - the UHD drive should be removed from your compatibility page for this - as IT DOES NOT WORK:

Pioneer

BD/DVD/CD Writer

BDR-XD07J-UHD

Intel Validated

I feel people will be buying this like I did, wanting to use it for Ultra HD Blu-ray disk playback and sadly disappointed.
Considering shortly after all my posts - seems many public sites did news articles about the removal of SGX from 11th gen and newer - so the information is out there.

Having Intel hide this info has seriously influenced my feelings towards buying and selling Intel products...
I have no more comments to share beyond my disappointment Intel continues to hide this AND apparently, at least publicly does not share any future plans about this.
What would be nice is a public statement like: "We realize the impact to the industry removing support for playback of Ultra HD Blu-ray disks and we are working with the Blu-ray Association to develop a new, secure method to allow this support to be restored..."

Rather than abandon an industry that supports playback of 4K and likely 8K Ultra HD Blu-ray movie disks for a long time to come.
Not everyone will be streaming movies 'once' - most people who invest in home theaters will want to own these movies as I do.

You can mark this conversation closed