NUC11PHKi7C Thunderbolt Issue...

[Off2Geo]

Having a jolly of an issue with my new NUC11PHKi7C's Thunderbolt ports.

Before we dive into the problem, this will be the 3rd NUC in my household.

I have a NUC5i3RYH, NUC8i7BEH & the now the NUC11PHKi7C. Never had any major issues with the previous two other than the constant thermal issues on the NUC8.

Now on to the NUC11: All drivers & Bios up to date via Windows 11 & Intel Driver & Support Assistant as of today May 22nd, 2022. Bios Settings set at Default.

Issue: Thunderbolt Ports (both) will not work if unit is powered OFF and then back ON.

IF, power source is unplugged (wait a few seconds) then plugged back in, the Thunderbolt ports work again upon powering unit on. This issue does not happen if the NUC11 is put to sleep and then woke up, only on full power down.

Suggestions?

Thank you for your input.

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello @Off2Geo 

Thank you for posting on the Intel® communities.

In order to review this further, could you please provide the following details?

1- We understand this is a new Intel® NUC. Is the behavior occurring since the first day that you have the device?

2- When you said "Thunderbolt ports don't work", what is the exact issue? Are Thunderbolt devices not getting recognized or getting disconnected? Are you trying to power USB-C devices? Do you have connection drops or performance issues? Please provide more details:

3- When this behavior happens, do you see any error message or error code? Perhaps in Windows Device Manager?

4- Run the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) to gather more details about the system:

• Download the Intel® SSU and save the application on your computer
• Open the application, check the "Everything" checkbox, and click "Scan" to see the system and device information. The Intel® SSU defaults to the "Summary View" on the output screen following the scan. Click the menu where it says "Summary" to change to "Detailed View".
• To save your scan, click Next and click Save.
• Once you have saved the file (.txt file), please attach it to your reply.

To upload and attach a file, use the "Drag and drop here or browse files to attach" option below the response textbox.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[TzaddiKatamar]

Hi Andrew,

I am having a related issue. I have my monitor hooked up to my NUC11PHBi7 via the thunderbolt port. Whenever the PC goes to sleep it will no longer wake the monitor or recognize it when I manually wake the monitor. In order for me to get the monitor working again I need to do a hard reboot. I do not have this issue when I connect my monitor via HDMI or DP. I appreciate any help. Thanks

[Off2Geo]

In order to review this further, could you please provide the following details?

1- We understand this is a new Intel® NUC. Is the behavior occurring since the first day that you have the device?

...after installing SSD's & RAM, hooked up monitor via Thunderbolt to Display Port Cable (Same one I use with the NUC8i7BEH) and no video signal which I thought was odd. Tried HDMI to HDMI cable and that worked, proceeded to install Windows 11.

Ordered a Mini Display Port to Full Size Display Port cable, that works and that is what I am currently using. Have an external DAC connected via USB-A (which actually connects via USB-C as well). I have one device that is USB-C, which is an external SSD backup drive. I also every now and then would connect my iPad Pro via Thunderbolt to backup (on the NUC8i7BEH that is).

Windows 11 did several updates. So, trying to pinpoint a Windows update to an issue was pointless since I was not using the Thunderbolt connections at all at the time, so I did not notice.

One day after work, I went to listen to music via the DAC and it had static and choppiness. Noticed the DAC Bit-Rate LED was very DIM. Thought that was odd (Never had any problems like this with the NUC8) Thought I would try the USB-C port and see if that had an issue, but it would not power on my DAC. Confused, I grabbed the external USB-C SSD and that had no power either and Windows again was not saying anything was connected or having issues. Checked Device Manager and everything was confirmed to be working as far as the ports. Then I grabbed my iPad and plugged it in via USB-C and nothing again. So, I went online to Intel Support Forums and starting hunting for related issues.

Read "try disabling Windows Power management for the USB ports", and that fixed the DAC issue on those ports. Upon further reading I found where someone was having similar issues with the USB-C Thunderbolt ports not working and they solved it by unplugging the DC in, and then plugging back in, then upon boot the USB-C ports worked as they should. However, If I do a complete shutdown (which I rarely do and primarily choose Sleep instead) when booted back up, the ports again will not work until is powered down, the power is removed via DC Plug then replaced and then rebooted. This issue continues to this day.

2- When you said, "Thunderbolt ports don't work", what is the exact issue? Are Thunderbolt devices not getting recognized or getting disconnected? Are you trying to power USB-C devices? Do you have connection drops or performance issues? Please provide more details:

...Read (question 1 reply above) ... I believe I did in fact state the exact issue in my first post. They do not disconnect once "reset" from DC power being removed and then re-booting. Disconnect/Not Working happens if a Full Power Down is performed. Upon rebooting they have to no power and Windows says nothing about an issue or a device being attached and not functioning properly.

Since having the new unit, I have noticed SLEEP does not stay asleep, even when wake timers/LAN/DSP/Etc. are disabled. Several times I have tried to put it to sleep, only to have the monitor sleep but the NUC stays fully on. (I do have the POWER BUTTON set to fade in and out on sleep via NUC Software Studio.

In the middle of the night at some point the NUC came back on again, but the screen was still asleep. This am, I had my son watch the unit today to see when it came out of sleep while I was at work. I put the unit to sleep via power button this time and within 4 hrs. the NUC was back on, screen was still asleep, but power and status LEDs were on and acting as usual when normally on.

3- When this behavior happens, do you see any error message or error code? Perhaps in Windows Device Manager?

...There absolutely no error codes. I have checked numerous times every time I have an issue.

Since today, I have disabled the Intel Integrated Graphics (Device Manager) and Intel Smart Sound Tech OED (Bios) to see if that would help the issue, but it has not. Was not sure if the Smart Sound was waking the NUC from sleep.

Finally installed Intel Driver & Support System and let it update everything it said was needed including a BIOS update to 68. Have had no issues with the Intel Update. Everything still works/or rather does not work. No change noticed. NUC Software Studio is working normally.

**I hope your techs can get these issues worked out. I absolutely love my NUC11PHKi7C, and it has replaced the NUC8 as my daily **

4- Run the Intel® System Support Utility (Intel® SSU) to gather more details about the system:

...File attached.

[Off2Geo]

Update: This am I tried pressing the power button to turn on the NUC11 (from a full powered down state). Nothing happened. I then pressed it at least 4-5 times and it then it came on and booted normally. AND GUESS WHAT... the rear USB-C port that I have attached to my iPad Pro worked without having to disconnect the power from the NUC! Checked the front USB-C and it is working as well... What is going on?

Never ever have I had issues like the ones I am seeing from this new NUC. They have always just been reliable and just worked without major issues that I could not identify/fix myself. Starting to feel regretful that I may have long-term issues that will not be resolved and I in fact have a $$$$ lemon. 

I did want to mention something I did notice with the NUC8i7BEH after upgrading to Windows 11. It too will wake from sleep during the night. So perhaps this is a Windows 11 conflict with Modern Standby? Not sure. But that does not explain the power button issue having to be pressed several times before coming on. This does not occur on the NUC8.

Also, the power button was not an issue when I first got received the NUC11, so maybe some updates have caused an issue?

Attached SSU from this AM.

Regards,

O2G

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Off2Geo

Thank you very much for your response and for all the information, we really appreciate it. Please allow us to review these further since our understanding is that you're experiencing 3 different issues (USB-C port problems to power/detect connected devices, problems going to sleep and coming out from sleep randomly, and the last one the power on issue). As soon as we have more details available, we will be posting back in the thread.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Off2Geo]

You're welcome...

However, another issue again this evening. USB-C not working again after full shutdown. However, this time, pulling the DC power is not working as it has been. So, at this time USB-C is not functioning at all regardless of what I do. 

The only difference/change was a 2022-05 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 for x64-based Systems (KB5014019).

Later this evening when I tried to plug my iPad Pro up is when I noticed the issue:

Attaching another SSU. If you need me to provide more info or test anything, just let me know. Thank you...

Regards,

O2G

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Off2Geo

Thank you for your response.

After reviewing this further, we would like to share with you the following information and suggestions.

For the issue with Thunderbolt USB-C, please try the following steps.

1- Download and follow installation instructions of the latest Thunderbolt™ 3 DCH Driver for Intel® NUC, Version 1.41.1193.0.

2- The Thunderbolt Control Center should load automatically after the driver is installed and if or when you're connected to the Internet. If it doesn't, please download and install the Thunderbolt Control Center software from the Microsoft Store to approve and manage Thunderbolt devices.

3- Download and install the USB Type C Power Delivery Controller for Intel® NUC, Version 1.0.10.2.

For the issue "the NUC not entering Sleep mode or modern standby":

We would like to inform you that we are aware of some known issues with Sleep behavior and we're working on them. However, most of them relate to issues with "not being able to wake up from Sleep".

In this case, our recommendation is to try the following:

1- Make sure the operating system is up to date and install any pending updates. Refer to Update Windows*.

2- Try a clean installation of both graphics drivers:

• NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Driver Version 27.21.14.5256 (during installation options, select Clean Install)
• Intel® Graphics DCH Driver Version 30.0.101.1660. To perform a clean install of this driver, follow the steps on this link: Clean Installation of Intel® Graphics Drivers in Windows*.

3- If the behavior persists, test by downgrading the Intel® Graphics DCH Driver:

1. Download Graphics Driver version  30.0.101.1069
2. Save GFX-Win10_Win11-30.0.101.1069.zip file. 
3. Unzip the file.
4. Execute and complete the Installer.exe driver installation. 
5. Reboot the Intel® NUC.

With respect to the behavior "NUC waking up unexpectedly", you may review this article to investigate further what might be waking up the NUC: How to Use System Tools to Determine What Is Causing the Intel® NUC System to Wake.

Regarding the behavior with the "Intel® NUC not powering on and having to press 4/5 times the power button", this seems to be an expected behavior on this NUC. This is the explanation we got:

• When the power cord is disconnected and then plugging it back and immediately pressing the power button the NUC won't power on since it may take some seconds (3-5 seconds) for the device to be able/ready to power on.

This is considered expected behavior for this NUC and not an issue.

Please let us know if this is the behavior that you experienced. If it was, we can discard this as an "additional issue".

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Off2Geo]

Thanks for getting back in touch with me Andrew.

Ok, let's go thru this.

1)

1- Download and follow installation instructions of the latest Thunderbolt™ 3 DCH Driver for Intel® NUC, Version 1.41.1193.0.

2- The Thunderbolt Control Center should load automatically after the driver is installed and if or when you're connected to the Internet. If it doesn't, please download and install the Thunderbolt Control Center software from the Microsoft Store to approve and manage Thunderbolt devices.

3- Download and install the USB Type C Power Delivery Controller for Intel® NUC, Version 1.0.10.2.

...From my initial post on 5-22 and 5-23, I already indicated that my drivers were up to date via Microsoft Update & Intel Driver Support Update. The NUC11 was already using Thunderbolt Driver v1.41.1193.0. I confirmed this in the three previous SSU files I sent. I also already had Thunderbolt Control Center installed. I did go ahead and uninstalled both and re-installed both.

Thunderbolt control center never shows anything connected even when the USB-C ports are working, and something is plugged into them...

I also again forced the system to re-install USB Type C Power Delivery Controller for Intel NUC v1.0.10.2. This was also already installed but does NOT give a confirmation after installation. 

These two above actions did NOT fix the problem. The USB-C ports still do NOT function properly. No Power - No Detection. Thunderbolt Control center shows no connection (This may be because it only shows "certified" Thunderbolt hardware?

Once again, remove DC power, wait, plug back in and power on unit...I may get lucky, and the ports activate with at least power (BEFORE WINDOWS LOADS) then I may have data on them as well. It's a coin toss really.

2)

For the issue "the NUC not entering Sleep mode or modern standby":

This issue does not apply to me as I do not have an issue with it never coming out of sleep. Once again, my system is up to date. I did install an updated NVIDIA display driver after the above driver(s) re-installation just to see if that was an issue, but this update was from the NVIDIA GeForce Experience Driver Update app. No change.

3)

Regarding the behavior with the "Intel® NUC not powering on and having to press 4/5 times the power button", this seems to be an expected behavior on this NUC. This is the explanation we got:

• When the power cord is disconnected and then plugging it back and immediately pressing the power button the NUC won't power on since it may take some seconds (3-5 seconds) for the device to be able/ready to power on.

This is considered expected behavior for this NUC and not an issue.

Please let us know if this is the behavior that you experienced. If it was, we can discard this as an "additional issue".

As stated previously, this did not occur when I first received the NUC11. The NUC11 is not being unplugged regularly and then immediately plugged back in and the power button being pressed. This is from me shutting it down at night and then pressing the power button the next day to turn on. No power outages, no power removed. Perhaps something changed with auto update of Intel ME FW version or something else BIOS related? Holding power button down for 1-3 seconds seems to turn it on rather than just pushing once as usual. Pushing once without holding does put the NUC11 to sleep - Normal Action.

So, this is still an issue, but one I can live with as long as it is not failing hardware. I am more interested in getting the USB-C ports working as they should without weird steps to get them working or not. Like I said previously, never had any issues with USB-C/Thunderbolt port on the NUC8.

So, we are still at square one. Same issues, nothing fixed. I even went into BIOS and loaded defaults before doing any of the above updates just so it was as it came. I was able to once again power the unit down, unplug the DC in, wait 5 min. plug back in and the USB-C ports are working again...until...

Device Manager shows no issues.

Attaching yet another SSU & Device Manager screenshot. Thank you again for getting this figured out. What is the next proposed action? NUC11 return for refund eligible through May 29, 2022... of course this will be nonreturnable at this point.

Regards,

Off2Geo

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Off2Geo

Thank you for your response and for all the details.

In this case, we would like to continue working on the Thunderbolt™ USB-C issue through a separate case. Therefore, we kindly request you to reach out to Intel® Customer Support directly through phone or chat to create a new case and continue the assistance for this specific issue. This is since we will need to go through additional steps and request more information.

Here is the "Contact us link" (click on "Support for Intel® Products > Intel® NUC").

Please make sure to select your country or region and to contact us within your local business Support hours. Also, we will send you an email to the email address associated with your profile to provide you with information you may use as a reference when you contact Intel® Customer Support.

On the other hand, we will review further and continue here in the thread the assistance regarding the other two issues (NUC not going to Sleep and the issue when trying to power on).

Once we have more details regarding these other two issues, we will be posting here in the thread.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Off2Geo

Thank you for your patience in this matter.

We would like to inform you that we try to test this but we were not able to replicate this behavior. Based on our tests, the Thunderbolt control center not showing the connected device seems to be expected behavior; however, despite that, devices should work fine.

For instance, we connected different devices to a NUC and tested all of them. The devices worked without issues showing proper functionality (e.g.: a Thunderbolt* dock, a USB-C stick, USB-C headphones, etc.).

The problem that you reported (Thunderbolt/USB-C port not working and not providing power) can be very much an isolated issue with that one NUC. We would like to let you know that we have seen a couple of reports from some users reporting similar issues; however, we have not been able to replicate the behavior. The issue could be specific to your unit or due to incompatibility with the Thunderbolt*/USB-C devices (We didn't have the same exact devices to test as the ones you have)

In order to set the right expectations, we would like to inform you that we don't have a resolution yet for this issue, and because we have not been able to replicate it, we cannot promise to release a solution soon.

Having said that, and considering the other issues that you're facing with sleep and powering on the unit, at this point our recommendation is to reach out to Intel Customer Support directly through phone or chat to assist you with warranty options. Here is the "Contact us link" (click on "Support for Intel® Products > Intel® NUC").

We will send you an email to the email address associated with your profile to provide you with more details.

Thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[AndrewG_Intel]

Hello Off2Geo

We have not heard back from you so we will proceed to close this thread now. If you need any additional information, please submit a new question as this thread will no longer be monitored.

It has been a pleasure to assist you.

Best regards,

Andrew G.

Intel Customer Support Technician