Overheat Protection for Intel Core i7-6700 3.40GHz processor

[CBark3]

Dear Intel Community,

I have a HP Envy 750-279na Desktop (Product Number N9C10EA#ABU) with a 6th generation Intel Core i7-6700 3.40GHz processor, bought in late 2106.

I am thinking of trying some HD video processing which will run the machine at near full power for up to an hour. Hence, I am concerned about overheat protection – particularly for the processor.

In reading the Intel datasheet for the processor (“desktop-6th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1 Rev 8 Aug 2018”) I was pleasantly surprised to read the “Thermal Management” chapter – it seems to say (in summary):

“The maximum processor temperature should not exceed 80 Celsius and that various functions / process built into the processor will automatically cut in to prevent the processor overheating and being damaged.”

I am old and past it – also, I trained as a Theoretical Physicist rather than an Electronics Design Engineer – so please would one of the bright young intel experts out there let me know if the above is correct?

I would also appreciate being told if there are any caveats on the above – e.g. keep the processor fan and heat dissipation fins clean of dust.

With Best Regards … O&PI​

[AlHill]

2106 is in the future...

Doc

[CBark3]

​I am old and past it - and have two fingers bandaged - so I am allowed one typo. Yes 2106 =>2016

[Alberto_R_Intel]

CBark3, Thank you for posting in the Intel® Communities Support.

In reference to your question, yes that is correct, the Intel® Processors have a feature that when the unit gets overheated the computer will go off automatically to prevent any damage to the unit itself and to the rest of the components in the system.

For the Intel® Core™ i7-6700 Processor specifically, the T-case temperature is 71°C, so any temperature value below that measure it is considered normal and expected, as long as the Intel® Processor does not reach a higher temperature than 71°C, the unit should be working fine:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88196/intel-core-i7-6700-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-00-ghz.html

Regarding the caveats, in this case, HP customized their PC, they provided all the necessary components, features and BIOS settings for the Intel® Processor to work properly with their platform.

Before doing any changes, what we recommend is to get in contact directly with them so they can provide further suggestions to avoid for the unit to get overheated from HD video processing:

https://support.hp.com/us-en

Any questions, please let me know.

Regards,

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[Alberto_R_Intel]

CBark3, We will be more than glad to further assist you.

If you have any further questions about this topic, please post them on the thread so all the peers in the Intel® community will be able to see the results and all details about this matter.

Regards,

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[CBark3]

Dear Alberto R (Intel), I think that I posted (a couple of hours ago) a follow-up to your 2/9/19 response, but I find the Intel Communities website a bit confusing to use (old age on my part) so may have “mis-posted”. Hence I will restate what I think I posted (lucky I kept a rough copy) … Thank you for your helpful response to my query: · I have taken a copy of the processor datasheet you provided a link to. · It is useful to have the T-case temperature. · I do not intend to change anything from the HP setup. I wonder if I could make further use of your expertise with a few additional questions? 1. Am I right in assuming that desktop PC components generally most at risk of overheating are the Processor, the GPU and the RAM chips? 2. With regard to my Processor, someone in the HP Community has said: At idle, you should expect to see temperatures between 35 and 50°C (95-122F), and when playing games or running any apps which put a high load on the CPU, you should expect them to rise to 60-85°C (140-185F). Does this sound right to you? I am not sure if these temperatures refer to the case temperature or to that of the four cores, so perhaps you could clarify / comment? 3. My HP Envy has an AMD Radeon (TM) R7 360 Series graphics card & I understand AMD to say that: · The maximum safe temperature for R7 360 under high continuous load is around 95C. · It is recommended not to run the GPU at 80-85C for long time as it might reduce the longevity. · For normal workload, you can run the GPU at 65-70C Please could you let me know if the above sounds right to you? 4. I think my RAM chips (8GB SK Hynix 1600MHz) may be the most temperature-sensitive part of the motherboard (please let me know if I am wrong) and Google searches seem to suggest that their Normal Operating Temperature Range is 0-85 Celsius, with an Extended Temperature Range (subject to caveat) of 85-95 Celsius Again, could you let me if the above sounds right to you? 5. I use a temperature monitoring package called SpeedFan which, apart from showing Motherboard & GPU temperatures, also shows the individual temperatures of all four processor cores (and the percent usage of all eight logical processors). I have tried to figure out what maximum safe core temperatures should be (from Intel’s “Desktop-6th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1, Rev 8, Aug 2018)”, but the document is a bit too complex for me. Am I correct to assume that safe processor core temperatures are up to 80 Celsius (or perhaps higher)? I have included (at the end of this post) what I think are key parts of the datasheet. Best Regards … CBark3 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thermal Management Support includes Fan Speed Control with DTS The system/processor thermal solution should be designed so that the processor remains below the maximum junction temperature (TjMAX) specification at the maximum thermal design power (TDP). The processor estimates the package power for all components on package. In the event that a workload causes the temperature to exceed program temperature limits, the processor will protect itself using the Adaptive Thermal Monitor. Occasionally the processor may operate in conditions that are near to its maximum operating temperature. This can be due to internal overheating or overheating within the platform. To protect the processor and the platform from thermal failure, several thermal management features exist to reduce package power consumption and thereby temperature in order to remain within normal operating limits. Furthermore, the processor supports several methods to reduce memory power The purpose of the Adaptive Thermal Monitor is to reduce processor IA core power consumption and temperature until it operates below its maximum operating temperature. The Adaptive Thermal Monitor can be activated when the package temperature, monitored by any digital thermal sensor (DTS), meets its maximum operating temperature. The maximum operating temperature implies maximum junction temperature TjMAX. Reaching the maximum operating temperature activates the Thermal Control Circuit (TCC). When activated the TCC causes both the processor IA core and graphics core to reduce frequency and voltage adaptively. The Adaptive Thermal Monitor will remain active as long as the package temperature remains at its specified limit. Therefore, the Adaptive Thermal Monitor will continue Each processor has multiple on-die Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) that detects the processor IA, GT and other areas of interest instantaneous temperature Digital Thermal Sensor based fan speed control (TFAN) is a recommended feature to achieve optimal thermal performance. At the TFAN temperature, Intel recommends full cooling capability before the DTS reading reaches TjMAX Regardless of enabling the automatic or on-demand modes, in the event of a catastrophic cooling failure, the package will automatically shut down when the silicon has reached an elevated temperature that risks physical damage to the product. At this point the THERMTRIP# signal will go active. The processor will stop all executions when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 130 °C. Critical Temperature detection is performed by monitoring the package temperature. This feature is intended for graceful shutdown before the THERMTRIP# is activated. However, the processor execution is not guaranteed between critical temperature and THERMTRIP#. If the Adaptive Thermal Monitor is triggered and the temperature remains high, a critical temperature status and sticky bit are latched in the PACKAGE_THERM_STATUS MSR 1B1h and the condition also generates a thermal interrupt, if enabled. The processor provides thermal protection for system memory by throttling memory traffic when using either DIMM modules or a memory down implementation. Two levels of throttling are supported by the processor, either a warm threshold or hot threshold that is customizable through memory mapped I/O registers. Throttling based on the warm threshold should be an intermediate level of throttling. Throttling based on the hot threshold should be the most severe. The amount of throttling is dynamically controlled by the processor. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Alberto_R_Intel]

CBark3, You are very welcome, thank you for posting those details in the thread.

In reference to your questions:

-Am I right in assuming that desktop PC components generally most at risk of overheating are the Processor, the GPU and the RAM chips?

Yes, actually, if the PC gets overheated, all the components are at risk, including the motherboard itself, but those will be components most at risk.

-I am not sure if these temperatures refer to the case temperature or to that of the four cores, so perhaps you could clarify / comment?

The manufacturer of the PC has the option to customized everything on their products, based on the parts installed, the airflow, the case, the fans and all the components installed by them the PC will have different behaviors about overheating and temperatures.

So, if they said that those are the temperatures values that this specific PC will reach, then that information is correct, they are the proper ones to confirm those details.

-The maximum safe temperature for R7 360 under high continuous load is around 95C.

It is recommended not to run the GPU at 80-85C for long time as it might reduce the longevity.

Same, scenario, AMD is the manufacturer of the AMD Radeon (TM) R7 360 Series graphics card, so if HP installed that component in their PC, then they customized everything in there to comply with those conditions.

-They said: Normal Operating Temperature Range is 0-85 Celsius, with an Extended Temperature Range (subject to caveat) of 85-95 Celsius

For this question is the same situation, Hynix is the manufacturer of the memory RAM and they are the only ones that will be able to confirm those details. Just like with the video card, if HP installed that component in their PC, then they customized everything in there to comply with those conditions.

-Am I correct to assume that safe processor core temperatures are up to 80 Celsius (or perhaps higher)?

According to the specifications of the Intel® Core™ i7-6700 Processor specifically, the T-case temperature is 71°C, so the temperature should not go higher than that value for the unit to work properly. Once again, the same thing, since HP customized the PC they will install the proper components for the PC to work without any problems.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88196/intel-core-i7-6700-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-00-ghz.html

Regards,

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[CBark3]

Dear Alberto R (intel), I will further discuss with HP to clarify their advice on processor temperatures for the HP Envy, but perhaps you can pre-clarify my confusion - I prefer to have inputs from multiple technical experts, particularly if they agree with each other 😊 1. It seems to me that the T-Case limit (71 Celsius) is measured on the OUTSIDE of the processor and T-Case will therefore benefit from dust free cooling fins & a dust free fan on the processor cooling package. Am I correct regarding this? 2, It also seems to me that, INSIDE the processor, the four cores can operate at higher temperatures than the 71 Celsius limit for T-CASE (perhaps the 60-85 Celsius cited by HP) and that the Junction Temperature / DTS may be the technical terms for what I refer to as “temperatures of the four processor cores”. Again, am I correct on this? I am basing item 2 on the following datasheet extracts: * Each processor has multiple on-die Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) that detects the processor IA, GT and other areas of interest instantaneous temperature, * Digital Thermal Sensor based fan speed control (TFAN) is a recommended feature to achieve optimal thermal performance. At the TFAN temperature, Intel recommends full cooling capability before the DTS reading reaches TjMAX. * Regardless of enabling the automatic or on-demand modes, in the event of a catastrophic cooling failure, the package will automatically shut down when the silicon has reached an elevated temperature that risks physical damage to the product. At this point the THERMTRIP# signal will go active. * The processor will stop all executions when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 130 °C. Any explanation from yourself to confirm or correct my understanding as above would be most gratefully received. With Best Regards … CBark3

[Alberto_R_Intel]

Hi CBark3, Thank you very much for your response.

Yes, you are correct, the T-case temperature is the one that measures the temperature of cooper IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader).

DTS is the temperature reported by the many digital thermal sensors within a CPU. Yes, it is the temperature of all the cores, and yes it might be higher than 71°C, as stated by HP it could be 60-85 °C but it varies depending on the Intel® Processor model.

Tjmax: Fixed limit that any of the DTS can reach, after which frequency throttling will occur. All 3 temperatures are an indicator of CPU die temperature. It is the overall temperature reported by both the T-case and DTS that will activate the THERMTRIP# signal to shut the system down automatically to avoid any damage of the internal components.

You are correct about the DTS and Digital Thermal Sensor-based fan speed control (TFAN).

You are also right about the THERMTRIP# signal information. The 130 °C value may vary from one Intel® Procesor to the other since not all of the Intel® Processors are the same or have the same temperature limit, some of them might activate the signal with a temperature value lower than 130 °C.

In the following link, you will find further details about the Intel® Processors temperatures:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005597/processors.html

Regards,

Alberto R.

[CBark3]

Dear Alberto R (Intel), I am most grateful for the clear and detailed explanations – also the educational updates from 1971-4 undergraduate Physics courses - that you are providing. 1. For the avoidance of any residual doubt on my part, please confirm (or not) that my reference to “cooling fins, etc.” is the old-fashioned equivalent of your more modern reference to copper and other systems (Integrated Heat Spreader) that conduct heat away from the processor (expedited, of course, by a fan to increase cooling air flow over the metal surfaces)? 2. It sounds to me as if (were one to be really stupid) one could theoretically but ‘safely’ drive my HP Envy PC up to DTS processor core temperatures in excess of 100 Celsius. I currently have SpeedFan set to provide warnings if processor core temperatures exceed 70 Celsius, but it sounds as if I could safely increase these to 80-85 Celsius, as suggested by HP – perhaps you could confirm or correct this? 3. Thank you also for the FAQs link – I have taken a copy of it’s data. I am sure you will respond helpfully in respect of items 1 & 2 above, so I think our conversation can terminate shortly. Hence may I pre-emptively formally record my thanks to Intel and to yourself for the assistance you have given me. Before my brain burned out from work-related stress 2005-8, I used to be a senior manager (systems engineering / technical / risk / bid / price negotiation) with a personal order intake record of circa £50M – hence hopefully my commendation means something both to you & to Intel. With Best Regards and my Compliments … CBark3

[CBark3]

Dear Alberto R (Intel), I knew I’d forget something ….. In following the link you provided in your most recent email, I came across the webpage for the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005567.html It sounds as if I could run the PDT to check out my processor – I would envisage running the Quick Test and the Functional Test then – if everything looks good – I might run the Burn-In Test. FYI, I am using Windows 10 64-bit with the latest Feature, Quality, Driver and Other updates installed via “Windows Update” Please would you confirm whether or not the above would be OK? With Best Regards … CBark3

[CBark3]

Dear Alberto, Just to give you an update that might also be useful for other community members. I will proceed cautiously with your two recommended HP software test packages, and will probably do a dust clean-out first. However (in the interim), yesterday evening (10/9/19) I did the Patch Tuesday Windows Update & a subsequent Norton 360 Full System Scan, while monitoring PC temperatures using SpeedFan: * SpeedFan showed GPU temperatures staying below 65 Celsius & Processor Core temperatures only briefly touching 71 Celsius during the Windows Update & Installation. * During the follow-up Norton 360 Full System Scan, SpeedFan showed Processor Core 0-3 temperatures mostly at 70-80 Celsius (plus a few excursions to 80-85 Celsius) when scanning the SSD System Disc. When subsequently scanning the HDD Data Disc, temperatures were 40-60 Celsius at first (with a few initial excursions to 70 Celsius) but then progressively dropping to 38-45 Celsius. When the scan completed, all four Processor Core temperatures dropped to circa 35 Celsius when idling. * It seemed to me that a Patch Tuesday Windows Update only drives one Processor Core at a time to near 100%, whereas a Norton / Symantec Full System Scan simultaneously drives all four Processor Cores hard (when scanning the SSD Drive). I seem to remember that the most recent (July?) Windows 10 Features Update also drove all four Processor Cores hard for 5+ minutes. Please let me know your / Intel’s views regarding the temperature data above. With Best Regards … CBark3

[Alberto_R_Intel]

Hello CBark3, You are very welcome, thank you very much for sharing your feedback.

-Yes, that is correct, it is the equivalent of the (Integrated Heat Spreader) that conduct heat away from the processor.

-In reference to your second inquiry, the thing is that the Intel® processor has different layers, there is the temperature between junction (ide) and IHS, there is also the temperature between IHS and the heat-sink and also the temperature between the heat-sink and ambient. Those 3 temperatures are different, but they are measured as an overall temperature that will be the Tjmax, and no, it is not safe if that temperature value goes above 100°C.

Perfect, it is good to have the SpeedFan set to provide warnings if processor core temperatures exceed 70°C.

Thank you for posting the questions in the Intel® Communities support, those were very interesting questions and we are sure the details of this thread will be very helpful for all the peers viewing this conversation.

And yes, of course, you can always use the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool to test the Intel® Processor, it does an overall test on the unit to make sure it is working fine:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/19792/Intel-Processor-Diagnostic-Tool

Also, for temperature verification purposes, you can always use the Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility, this tool will allow you to monitor the temperature of the Intel® Processor and also to run a stress test on the unit:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24075/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-?product=66427

Regards,

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[Alberto_R_Intel]

Hi CBark3, Thank you for providing those details.

Not sure what you mean with the recommended HP software test packages, the applications that we advise to use are either the Intel® Processor Diagnostics Tool or the Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility. Additionally, about the dust clean-out, there are different reports from many peers stating that if you open the case of the HP PC, that will avoid the warranty on it, so we do not recommend to do that.

In regard to the SpeedFan and Norton 360 Full System Scan, those are 3rd party tools, so we cannot comment on the results, we only rely on the Intel® applications mentioned previously.

Same thing with the Microsoft updates, if you need to confirm some details about how it works or the features it has, the best thing to do will be to get in contact with Microsoft directly for them to confirm that information:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us

You can also get in contact directly with HP for them to provide additional recommendations to avoid for the computer to get overheated.

Regards,

Alberto R.

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

[CBark3]

Dear Alberto, Please accept my apologies for this belated reply - domestic necessities sometimes divert my time and attention. Firstly, a few replies to your most recent missive: * When I made mention of the “two recommended HP software test packages”, I meant the IPDT & IETU – sorry for creating some confusion. * I note and accept your statements that Intel cannot comment about SpeedFan, Norton 360, Windows Update, etc. * I had been in contact with HP prior to listing my query with the Intel Community, but found the ‘Intel’ correspondence to be more helpful, informative and rewarding. I will renew contact with HP when I think we have brought the ‘Intel’ correspondence to a successful conclusion. * I agree with you that opening up the HP Envy case may invalidate the Warranty, but the PC is three years old and (interestingly) HP advice - via HP Support Assistant - suggests that the user removes the case (giving instructions on how to do so) to clear out the dust using canned air. Secondly, some more interesting stuff - Please would you comment whether my reported readings are “As Expected” or “Cause for Concern”? * I downloaded, installed and ran both the IPDT & IETU today (3/10/19). * I ran the IPDT. It did the Full Functional Test OK and ended with a PASS but, in the last stages (GPUStressW / CPULoad / CPUFreq for CPU1), SpeedFan showed the Processor Core temperatures briefly hitting 90 degrees. * I then ran the IETU 5 minute CPU Stress Test. Package TDP went up to 40-50 W, Package Temperature went up to 86 degrees. SpeedFan confirmed Processor Core temperatures briefly peaking several times at 85 degrees. During the test, there was no throttling (Thermal, Current Limit, or Power Limit). * I then ran the IETU 5 minute Memory Stress Test. Package TDP was up to 57 W, Package Temperature during the last 2-3 periods of high CPU demand was consistently above 85 degrees, peaking at 90 degrees – confirmed by SpeedFan. During the test, there was no throttling (Thermal, Current Limit, or Power Limit). * I then ran the IETU / XTU Benchmark. The Score was 1121 marks, TDP maximum was 70 W, Highest CPU / Package Temperature was 87 degrees - confirmed by SpeedFan. During the test, there was no throttling (Thermal, Current Limit, or Power Limit). I trust that the above is helpful / of interest to the Community With Best Regards … CBark3