Thunderbolt 3 Power failure

[DFyff]

Hello

I have a fleet of the new NUC8i7BEK3 and they have a weird Thunderbolt 3 issue that i think is power related. If i attach a Thunderbolt device that takes power from the bus it will 80% of the time cause the Thunderbolt 15D9 controller in device manager to go into 'STATUS_DEVICE_POWER_FAILURE' and a 2nd instance of the USB 3.1 eXtensible host Controller - 1.10 will go into 'device is not present or has no driver (Code 20)' This does not happen to devices that are externally powered and very occasionally doesn't happen at all.

This is not an issue in the NUC7i5BNK but just the NUC8i7BEK3

Drivers and Bios all latest.

Thanks

[SChau10]

These symptoms match exactly those I encountered with a TEKQ Cube NVMe SSD enclosure hot-plugged into my NUC8i7BEH.

My issue is covered in another thread:

https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P00004Fk2Z0SAJ/nuc8i7beh-tekq-cube-tb3-nvme-ssd-enclosure-hotplug-failure-in-win10

This issue is under investigation at Intel.

[n_scott_pearson]

Remember that the NUCs do not support the (optional) USB-C Power Delivery feature. Each USB port - including the Thunderbolt 3 port - provides only the power required by the USB specifications. That is,

• (Internal) Black USB 2.0 ports: 500mA / 2.5W.
• Blue USB 3.0 ports: 900mA / 4.5W.
• Yellow USB 3.0 charging ports (per USB Battery Charging 2.0): 1500mA / 7.5W.
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C ports: 3000mA / 15W.

...S

[SChau10]

From Scott:

• USB 3.1 Type-C ports: 1500mA / 7.5W.

USB Type C ports in PC hosts are required to deliver up to 3A current at +5V to attached devices. This is regardless of whether the Type C port supports USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5Gbps) or Gen 2 (10Gbps) speed, and this current requirement is stipulated by the USB Type C Specification.

The Technical Product Specification of NUC8ixBE (Bean Canyon) also mentions 5V at 3A for the Thunderbolt 3 port (Section 1.8):

The boards support Thunderbolt™ 3 with up to 40 Gbps of data throughput, one 4k (60Hz) monitor output, USB3.1 (Gen 2) connection and charging capabilities up to 5V at 3A via the back panel USB Type C connector.

Thus:

• Thunderbolt 3 port (with backward compatibility as USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C port): 3000mA / 15W

Also, the 3A current is without any Power Delivery contract involved.

Scott, do you think the Bean Canyon NUCs are unable to deliver up to 3A out the TB3 port? Can this be a reason for hot-plug failures seen with Bean Canyon and certain bus-powered TB3 devices?

[n_scott_pearson]

I was just repeating the numbers detailed in the USB Power page in Wikipedia (here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Power). If you look at the chart there, there are two lines detailing USB-C requirements. I went with the first since I thought it was Gen 1. I see now that it is Gen 2 and thus I actually needed to use the second. I am editing my original post so that no one is confused by it.

Edit: Answering the other question, if the spec says it can deliver that much, it should deliver that much.

...S

[DFyff]

Can someone from Intel please get involved in this thread please. I think we have found a bug/hardware issue that needs a response and action taking.

Thanks

[Leonardo_C_Intel]

Hello DFyff Thank you for posting in the Intel Community. • What is the thunderbolt device that you are testing? • Are you hot-plug the thunderbolt device? • Have you installed the Thunderbolt™ Bus Driver for Windows® 10 for Intel® NUC Products? Reference link: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28658/Thunderbolt-Bus-Driver-for-Windows-10-for-Intel-NUC-Products. • Please attach to this thread the TXT file the Intel® System Support Utility will generate: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility • Steps to save the report: 1- Run the utility. 2- Click on “Scan” to get the scanned system. 3- Once the scan is complete click on “next”. 4- Use the “save” option, save the report to your desktop. 5- To attach a file, you must click the “Attach” option on the bottom left-hand corner of the response box. Hope this helps. Regards, Leonardo C. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation

[DFyff]

Hello Leonardo

Thanks for getting involved. Here are the answers;

Thunderbolt Device is either a Blackmagic Ultrastudio HD Mini https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/ultrastudio/techspecs/W-DLUS-10 and Lacie Thunderbolt External Drives (both TB2 with adapter and TB3 native)

Tried both hot plug and cold boot - no change

Yes running latest Thunderbolt Driver

Bios version is 0051 have also tried 0054 ( I have 60+ units so have tried all including early versions)

SSU txt file attached

Please be aware that these Thunderbolt devices work fine on the NUC model NUC7i5BNK. This tells me that the issue is inside the NUC817 rather than the external devices.

Thanks

[Chris_V_Intel]

Hey DFyff,

As SChau10 has reported here: https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P00004Fk2Z0/nuc8i7beh-tekq-cube-tb3-nvme-ssd-enclosure-hotplug-failure-in-win10 there is an issue with Thunderbolt on the NUC8ixBE models.

I can reproduce the issue and have opened a bug report.

As soon as I have more information I'll let you know.

[DFyff]

Hello ChrisV

Thank you for the update, Very happy how quickly this bug was acknowledged. I can only hope the bug is fixed as efficiently, that would be excellent as i need Thunderbolt on these systems relatively soon as would rather not return them all!

Is there a bug reference number i can have?

Thanks

[SChau10]

This bug manifests itself as a TB3 device hotplug failure with Bean Canyon NUC series. Non hot-plug functionality is fine. I can even boot Win10 OS from a pre-attached TEKQ Cube external NVMe SSD, but ironically hotplugging the device after Windows is running (from internal SSD) does not work.

My temporary workaround is to attach a TB3 dock to my NUC8i7BEH then plug the TB3 NVMe SSD enclosure into the dock. This is not a cost effective solution, however, and performance of the NVMe SSD also seems to suffer going through the dock.

[DFyff]

Hi SCHau10

Thanks for you input on this, glad its not just me finding this out. Our errors are a little different as with the devices i've tried mine is also failing from non hot plug and very occasionally the TB devices work just fine. Also anything that is not bus powered works just fine regardless of hot or cold plug. All of these TB devices i've tried work fine on the 7i5's which are using the exact same driver versions (where applicable) and Windows image that's on the 8i7. Tried Win10 Pro, Win10 Home, LTSB and LTSC, all have the exact same issue.

A self powered dock would certainly fix the issue but i'm not willing to go there just yet as the generation 7's work perfectly so i know it can be done. Up to Intel now....

Thanks

[Chris_V_Intel]

I apologize DFyff, I did not see your reply until now.

The good news, we're definitely still working on this issue.

The bad news, I can't give you a definitive date when I'll have more information.

I haven't forgotten about you guys, I have this case pinned and as soon as I have something, I'll let you know.

[Chris_V_Intel]

@DFyff​ 

I have updated the original thread SChau10 opened: https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P00004IvI3j long story short, try BIOS 0073. Sorry for not updating this thread sooner.

[Leonardo_C_Intel]

Hello DFyff Thank you for the information allow me to investigate the behavior, I will be posting as soon as possible. Regards, Leonardo C. Intel Customer Support Technician Under Contract to Intel Corporation

[DFyff]

Hello LeoC_Intel

Is there an update in this bug yet? I'm still sitting on a fleet of 50 units i cannot use correctly. Don't really want to start a returns procedure if it is going to be fixed.

Thanks

[Ronny_G_Intel]

Hi DFyff,

Did you try BIOS 73 --> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28951/BIOS-Update-BECFL357-86A-?product=147465 as mentioned by Chris? When reading the community post it is not clear to me if you have done this already and still having the same issue, please confirm as BIOS 73 is supposed to address a very similar issue if not the same.

Thanks.

Ronny G

[Russell]

Has this issue been resolved? I think we're encountering the same issue on the new 11th gen NUC with a Samsung X5 Thunderbolt SSD: https://community.intel.com/t5/Intel-NUCs/Thunderbolt-SSD-hot-plug-failure-on-Intel-NUC11TNBi7-with-Ubuntu/m-p/1359547#M88591