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Totally freezing (temperature?) of our NUC8BEH i7-8559U NUC's

We're using intel nuc's for running SCADA.

Altough I'm very confedient about the stability, for one customer we did need maximum cpu performance and we'd replaced our usual I3/I5 NUC for one of the highest performance i7-U series available, the NUC8BEH with I7-8559U (2.7Ghz - 4.5Ghz turbo).

But now we have temperature issues.

The cabinet the NUC is build in is climatized and stable around 18 degrees celcius.

However, the NUC increases very very rapidly to 85+ degrees celcius after doing some CPU tasks.

I've played around with BIOS settings to start its cooling fan some earlier (starting from 40 degrees) and increase value from 2 to 5 steps, but the fan speed doesn't change that much and 90-100 degrees (which is CPU's tpd!) is more usual than <80 degrees.

If I look to the fanspeed it seems not running 100% at this high temperature, although it should because its even higher than its max. setting of 65 degrees.

What I see is the CPU's turbospeed decreases gently while in overtemperature from 4.2Ghz down to 3.6-3.7Ghz. But still the CPU stays over 80 degrees while the FAN is just around 3000/4000 rpm while it seems to be able to run 8000 rpm (as this is the maximum showed in BIOS, but maybe its just visual not the max of the fan).

And if it can't cool better than this, then the NUC's cooling system/heatsink is very undersized?

I'd like to know how we can cool down the NUC without leaving its case open or build an addional heat sink or fan on it?

 

Is this a problem for us? Unfortunately yes. Before this i7 we used an i3 2.6Ghz and besides it was very very slow in running our SCADA, there were no any other issues. They're very stable. Fast, stable USB, very stable network (intel pro ethernet), high quality WiFi (higher throughput and better signal than most of the mobile phones and laptops used around it!).

With changing the NUC to the i7, the NUC frequently freezes (no BSOD, but just stop working, no keyboard, no mouse, screen freezed.. we have to power off/on via PSU to restart the NUC again).

This also happens in BIOS. Suddenly hanging/freezing system, however most of the times in BIOS the keyboard /mouse still works, but under Windows everything freezes. Even holding power button does not work anymore then.

All our NUCs are running a same image of Windows 10 pro, same updates, same drivers (except CPU driver) , have 2x Samsung Evo SSD RAID-1 with plenty of free space and 8G of memory.

Again, the i3 and i5 doesn't have issues, but the ones changed to i7 do have in common that they frequently totally freezes.

We tried to track any circumstances to pointing a reason, but cant find any than CPU temperature.

 

So actually I have 2 questions:

  • How to bring down cpu's temperature
  • Reason for freezing. Usually over temperature should trigger a BSOD, but no BSOD, no event log. Nothing.

 

Kind regards, John

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Hello JSche35

 

Thank you for posting in the Intel Community.

 

·        I would like to have more details about the environment in which the Intel® NUC is being used. Is it possible that you can describe or provide a picture of the cabinet that contains the Intel® NUC?

·        What kind of airflow does the cabinet have?

·        Is it possible that you can try lowering the cabinet's temperature?

·        How many units do you have in the cabinet?

·        How many units are being affected?

 

·        Please (from one of the units) attach to this thread the TXT file the Intel® System Support Utility will generate: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility

Steps to save the report:

1-   Run the utility.

2-   Click on “Scan” to get the scanned system.

3-   Once the scan is complete click on “next”.

4-   Use the “save” option, save the report to your desktop.

5-   To attach a file, you must click the “Attach” option on the bottom left-hand corner of the response box.

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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Hello JSche35

 

Have you been able to collect the details requested?

 

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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Hi Leonardo,

 

Thanks for your answer, hereby some answers and the log.

There are many issues logged with domain and Sophos anti virus, because this typical NUC is put in domain of customer.

However issues started before we put the NUC in domain and before we installed Sophos.

 

I included 3 photos of the cabinet.

The cabinet temperature has an fan with active flow cooling.

We also tested with cabinets door open and issue stell persists.

The big problem is it doesn't freeze that frequently to wait for the moment, they have runned one week without issues and last friday (28th of february) the NUC suddenly freezed again.

And sometimes it happens 2 or 3 times a week.

 

The temperature is (see photo) around 18°C, the room has a hughe cooling unit (food industry).

There is one NUC in a cabinet together with a network switch and the NUC's PSU.

 

I'm very busy at the moment, so it's possible It can take a couple of days to see your comment, my apologizes.

I try to read my mail as frequent as possible.

 

[EDIT] I read a lot of the 'noisy' fan. However, @90-100°C we can't hear the fan at all. It's just a little 'breeze'.

Could this be a reason? I tried to read out the fans' speed with some tools, but it seems Intel does not support this.

Is there another option to read out the fans' actual speed?

When we shut down the nuc @ 100°C and immediatly go to BIOS, it shows 2100-2800rpm. However the CPU's temperature must be still >60 (also the tempeature shown in BIOS is still > 60°C), so we expect the FANs speed much higher than 'idle'.

As we can read out the CPU's temperature (all cores) the temperature sensor seems to work.

Is there a possibility the pwmloop / fans' trottle doesnt work?

Or could the secundaire 'memory temp fan control' be the issue?

As this temperature is below its fan's setpoint (memory ~48°C), can it be a BIOS bug were the CPU function wants to increase fans' speed but the memory loop decrease it?

Motherboard temp is around 31-35°C.

 

 

Thank you very much,

Have a nice day,

 

John

 

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Somehow I cant attach just one item.

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posted a file.
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And the log

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Hello  JSche35

 

Thank you for the details of your environment.

 

Try installing Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility (Intel® XTU) to monitor the system while running the system on default BIOS settings.

What is the internal temperature internal of the cabinet when it is closed?

Can you test the Intel® NUC completely outside of the cabinet?

How many units are being affected?

What is the part number for the storage devices on the Intel® NUC?

 

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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Thanks Leonardo,

 

I've installed the tool.

When they're ready with the actual batch, they going to restart the NUC and then I can monitor as you asked.

When the door is closed the internal temperature is 22°C, around the NUC it's warmer as the hot airflow blows around there.

The temperature near the NUC (so in air flow) is 35-40°C.

The fan blows cool air in the cabinet which is blown out at top.

The cabinet is one of our customers, we'd just deliverd the NUC and SCADA.

I've already asked for a better fan and maybe a second fan in cabinet itself which blows around the NUC.

However, the customer finds this a bit strange as the previous NUC did run a year without any issue.

I tried to explain the higher needed power for the faster CPU is the issue at the moment, but I surely do know there is something wrong.

We also tested with the NUC outside the cabinet and this doesn't differ that much. It stays then around 78-81°C , inside cabinet with door colosed 83-84°C.

We have 3 nucs with this issue, however this particular one is the one with the heaviest SCADA.

When we closes all software, the CPU storage is around 5-10% and the CPU's temperature 45-50°C.

The memory type = KVR24S17S8/8 (Kingston 8GB 2400MHz DDR4 NonECC CL17 SODIMM 1Rx8).

The storage = 1x SSD EVO 860 500GB and 1x MZ-N6E500BW (Samung EVO 860 500GB M2) in RAID-1.

Further on there is a standard HP keyboard and mouse connected and an USB Sentinental License Key.

This particular memory and both SSD's comes from the I3 NUC (which was a 7th generation NUC).

 

The Intel Extreme Utility has been started right now.

CPU utilization is 60-64% and package temperature 89-94°C.

Memory =4790MB.

Packaged TDP = 28-31W.

Power limit throttling = yes.

Max core freq = 3.49Ghz.

Cach freq = 3.1Ghz.

Current/EDP throttling = no.

[EDIT]

Idle:

CPU: 8%

Package TDP: 8-11W

Package temp: 54-61°C (jumps equal to utualization)

Active core: 1

What I also see is that the CPU is whole the time in Turbo Mode, as the usual frequency is 2.7Ghz, but even in IDLE (just Windows and services, with 5-10% CPU usage) the frequency is > 4Ghz.

If I see the graph, as Embedded Engineer I see a hugh thermal issue, as the core temp jumps that fast (like 50-61-49-64) just in seconds. Pretty heavy and I hear (in a way of speaking) all capacitors crying :/ I think if this cant be solved, this CPU will be dead within a year.

 

What should I do next?

 

Is this a known issue of this NUC's?

Otherwise I'll send it back for RMA and try another one.

Maybe something went wrong with thermal paste or such a thing are we just unlucky with some bad ones.

When looking on the internet I hear about noisy fans and also one telling his CPU is 60°C at 100% CPU storage with a i7.

However the exact type of i7 isn't mentioned, so maybe he has a lower clocked CPU.

Anyway, I suppose when Intel offers this 85xx cpu that they've fully tested their NUCs.

 

See for example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/cw82ej/3_cpu_dies_on_i78559u/

and

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC-Mainstream-Kit-NUC8i7BEH/dp/B07GX69JQP?th=1

where one say they have no overheating issues while others mentioning same issues like >80°C and also thermal trottling which kicks in.

The only difference is I can't hear a loud fan like they're telling over there.

 

I'd like to hear a next step.

If disabling Turbo Boost is a good way start from now, I can try this.

But if you say the NUC should be able to stay cool at 100% CPU, then I'd like to hear a next step to the solution from you.

 

Thank you very much,

 

John

 

 

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Hello JSche35

 

You have mentioned that outside the temperature of the Intel® NUC is lower but I would like to confirm if the freezing happens?

The temperatures that are being reported in the system are still within the specifications for the Intel® Core™ i7-8559U Processor that come with the Intel® NUC, you did mention that only 3 Intel® NUC are affected, are the other Intel® NUCs (the not affected) on the environment the same model? 

 

How long ago did you purchase the affected units?

 

 

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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Hi Leonardo,

 

Yes it also freezes outside the cabinet.

There are as far as I know only 3 affected, however, the others are i3 (7th generation) and an i5 (8th generation).

In this particular cabinet there was a 7th gen with i3 installed which I've changed to the 8th generation model. The 7th doesn't have that problems, CPU was around 65°C at 100% CPU.

They're purchased somewhere in the past 1.5 year.

I can ask administration to find out when exactly if you need this information.

But you're telling me that an processor hitting 94°C, activating thermal throttling is quite normal?

 

Can you please give me also answer for this questions:

 

  • So the only option left for us is to make an hole in the NUC and put an fan on it to give it more air flow and cool it down?
  • I like to know if I can test the inner fan or read it out somewhere.
  • Usually older computers does put max frequency and turbo on in bios, but nowerdays they dont, so in BIOS the CPU is in idle mode and doesn't produce that much heat, so to test the fan and read out its rpm is quite difficult.
  • Do you have any idea how we can verify this fans speed?
  • Is disabling turbo boost in BIOS a good way to go for know?
  • Did you see anything wrong in the log I sent you?

 

Tomorow I will be on location again, I then start with disabling Turbo Boost.

The NUC will be a lot slower, but if it doesn't crash again, we then know the exact reason.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

John

 

 

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Hello JSche35

 

Thank you for the details, in regards to your questions:

 

So the only option left for us is to make a hole in the NUC and put a fan on it to give it more airflow and cool it down? this is not recommended since this would void the product warranty. 

Do you have any idea how we can verify these fans' speed? You might what to try Hwinfo64

Is disabling turbo boost in BIOS a good way to go for now? This could help with the temperature but would not allow the processor to increase the frequency if needed. 

Did you see anything wrong in the log I sent you? In the report, I wanted to look for any pending updates on the system but you have it up to date.

 

Please provide me with the following details:

 

What is the model of the other Intel® NUCs that are working properly?

What is the software you are running in the Intel® NUC for your SCADA environment?

Do you have the freezing with the NUC inside if the cabinet (closed) if you run the Intel® XTU stress test?

In the BIOS settings run cool cooling settings? 

 

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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Hello  JSche35

 

Have you been able to collect the information requested?

 

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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Hello JSche35

 

We have not heard back from you, so we will close this inquiry. If you need further assistance, please post a new question.

 

Regards,

Leonardo C.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

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