Wish for USB 2.0 on next generation NUC

JNiel20 · ‎07-09-2020

I like my NUC 10i3 but my Logitech K400+ keyboard is not responding like it used to on older NUC's and other computers with USB 2.0. I know about backwards compatibility but the USB 3.1 gen 2 ports on the NUC is not good enough for keyboards and mice using USB 2.0.

I have read another place about this subject and i'm not the only one having this problem.

I hope for a single USB 2.0 port on the next NUC as lots of wireless keyboards and mice are still produced using 2.4 GHz.

Regards

John

LeonWaksman · ‎07-09-2020

Hi @JNiel20 ,

I'm using Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse on my NUCs without any problems. The Logitech Unifying Wireless Adapter is inserted into USB 3.1 or USB 3.0 port. Probably you have other than compatibility problem. Try to connect the Logitech Wireless Adapter on an extension cable to keep in distance from NUC and see how it is working.

BTW, if you want USB 2.0 port for your NUC you can buy Intel NUC 10th Gen LID with Dual USB 2.0 Ports but I don't believe that you really need.

Leon

JNiel20 · ‎07-09-2020

Well, i also own the NUC 8i3 with the same result, and i have tried out an extension cable, i read about interference on the USB 3.1 ports. The Logitech K400+ and the K830 give the same results when using the the USB 3.1 on both NUC's. When using the yellow USB port on the front of the 8i3 everything works fine, that is a bit strange, isn't it a USB 3.1 port aswell?

I didn't know about the dual USB 2.0 ports. That's a good tip. Thank you. Have not seen it in Denmark yet..

LeonWaksman · ‎07-10-2020

Hi @JNiel20

Please verify BIOS settings: Advanced > Devices > USB > USB 3.0 Port Header > should be set Host Mode. All other settings: Retain USB power..., Power on/off, USB Ports should be set Enable.

Leon

JNiel20 · ‎07-10-2020

Running Bios 0042 on NUC10i3 and Host Mode is not an option. All USB options is set to enable in Bios.

LeonWaksman · ‎07-10-2020

Yes, you are right, USB Host Mode is not an option in AptioV Bios (it was an option in the older Bios). I assume that except having problem with the Logitech receiver, all the USB port working while NUC is in Windows?

Leon

JNiel20 · ‎07-10-2020

Yes, they're all working fine in Windows 10, it's just that my keyboard is not working as good as in a real USB 2.0 port...other barebone's like Shuttle offers lots of USB 2.0 ports on their PCs - i really can't see why Intel couldn't do that aswell, just one USB 2.0 would be great - it would be a selling point for me and perhaps for others too...

RJamm · ‎07-09-2020

You might want to study the manual. Most NUCs in recent years have two white 1.25mm 4-pin headers on the mainboard which provide USB 2.0. You need adapter cables to use them, like I do.

They can wake up the NUC10 with keyboards or mice, or you can use the front USB-A port (with hubs, if you want). The rear USB-A ports don't wake up the thing.

AlHill · ‎07-09-2020

Rather than using cables, just use a functional lid:

https://www.gorite.com/intel-nuc-products/intel-nuc-replaceable-lids/intel-nuc-functional-lids

None listed for NUC 10 (yet), but I am sure they will be there soon.

Doc

n_scott_pearson · ‎07-09-2020

First of all, every USB 3 port contains both a high-speed USB 2.0 portion and a super-speed USB 3.x portion. If you plug a USB 2.0 cable into a USB 3.x Type A port, you are connecting to just the high-speed USB 2.0 portion of the port. Bottom line, there is no reason to add separate USB 2.0 port(s); the USB 3.x Type A ports suffice.

Secondly, as has been mentioned, every NUC board exposes headers for two USB 2.0 port(s). You can use cables or a replacement lid that exposes these ports (or uses them to add some feature(s) to the NUC). Many choices are available via https://www.microsatacables.com/ (and they ship internationally, I believe).

Now, let's talk about compatibility. All USB ports (USB 2.0 and USB 3.x) are exposed to software via a PCH-based USB 3.x xHCI root hub. If this software has vagaries that require a "true" USB 2.0 port (or root hub), well, you are out of luck regardless; there simply isn't one (nor will there be). Remember the issue with USB 3.0 support on Windows 7 that required gas-pumping drivers into the Windows 7 installation image? Well, this was the cause of it.

Now, in this particular situation, we are talking about the compatibility of the Logitech 2.5GHz wireless dongles. I have seen no issues and this includes with the FN NUCs. I thus believe that your issue is being caused by either a single, problematic FN NUC (in which case you should get it replaced) or it is being caused by interference. Interference could also be caused by a single, problematic NUC.

...S

JNiel20 · ‎07-10-2020

People still want USB 2.0, the replacement lids are a good idea, but why not put a USB 2.0 port directly as a normal port. My Steinberg soundcard, the external DVD drive, my Logitech keyboard, mice etc. still uses USB 2.0, and will do for years to come, the only thing that will benefit from the USB 3.1 (in my house) is an external harddrive. USB 3.1 uses a lot of power and have problems with interference. There are still good reasons to keep the USB 2.0 port.

I have tried an extension cable, but then i might have two faulty NUCs which i find hard to believe.

DHoga2 · ‎07-10-2020

I am not from Intel but I'd like to elaborate on the "interference." My experience is that using such wireless keyboard/mouse device works fine on a modern USB 3.x port as long as it is the only device. What causes the trouble is when you are using some *additional* device (such as a "thumb" drive) and that other device is operating in USB 3.x mode. That is a specific repeatable scenario for me which causes trouble with some wireless devices such as the dongle for keyboard/mouse. When there is a 2.0 port or a 2.0-only setting for the port, the USB 3.x device (thumb drive) operates in 2.0 mode, avoiding the interferences.

The main workaround has been mentioned, it is to use something like an extender cable to move the wireless dongle some distance away from the 3.x port which has some 3.x device.

An eight year old paper with some tech info is at this link

JNiel20 · ‎07-10-2020

You're so right, when i unplug my external 3.0 harddrive, the keyboard gets steady as it should be - the soundcard and keyboard operates at 2.0, should i buy extender cables to all the USB ports?...

DHoga2 · ‎07-10-2020

The interference is typically only 2.4GHz radio devices. So you should only need an extender cable to move the "dongle" of your mouse/keyboard away from the interfering USB 3 port/cable/device.

LeonWaksman · ‎07-11-2020

Hi @JNiel20

In my post on Jul 9, I suggested that you should connect the Logitech receiver on an extension cable. On Jul 10, you answered that you checked this solution and it didn't helped? Am I wrong?

Leon

JNiel20 · ‎07-11-2020

No, you're not wrong....what helped was i instead removed my USB 3.0 external harddrive not the keyboard dongle...it was the other way around...i had not tried that before, removing the keyboard dongle didn't help...

Thanks for providing help....much appreciated!

LeonWaksman · ‎07-10-2020

Hi Al,

There is a Gorite lid for NUC10. See my post above.

Leon