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1248 Discussions

Clone HDD with Optane Memory enabled

noquiexis
Beginner
2,788 Views

I have a Dell XPS 8920 (circa 2017) with the Dell OEM 1TB HDD as boot drive (Drive C), and with Optane Memory enabled ("paired" to the boot drive). I also have a second internal drive, 2TB HDD. (Drive D)
I want to replace the 1TB HDD OEM drive with a new 2TB HDD drive, after I clone the OEM drive. (I will temporarily remove the current 2TB "D" drive.)
Assuming that I clone the boot drive while Optane Memory is enabled:
1. Do I need to disable Optane Memory before swapping the drives, or will the system recognize the cloned (2TB) boot drive after the swap?
2. If the system will reboot from the cloned 2TB replacement, will the "Rescan" process pick up the data for the new boot drive?Optane_Memory_and_OEM_drive_2.jpg

 

In the image above, the "SATA (932 GB)" is the current boot 1TB HDD drive.

Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052)

The Intel Optane Memory Module 'appears' to be version M.2, but I could be wrong. Is it "M10" or "H10"?

If I am all wet about the clone/swap procedure, please give step-by-step instructions.

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n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,746 Views

This is exactly why I was telling you to disable the Optane module so that all data cached on it is flushed to the HDD. This can include parts of folder data structures, file contents, etc. 

The actual Optane data for the HDD is stored in the 'last' 10 MB or so of the drive; there should be no partition covering this area.

The multiple Recovery Partitions are the result of either a Windows upgrade operation or an incorrect (IMHO) Windows 10 install (you should always delete all partitions on a drive before letting the Windows 10 installer do its thing). Still, if you are going to clone the drive, you are stuck with these partitions. Make sure that the additional space on the new drive is assigned to your OS partition.

Hope this helps,

...S

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13 Replies
n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,773 Views

No! Don't do it! Can you see me wincing?

You need to disable Optane before doing anything else. Only then will the contents be flushed to the HDD and the HDD ready for cloning. After cloning and replacing the drive with the new one, you can reenable Optane to accelerate the performance of this new, larger drive.

...S

noquiexis
Beginner
2,756 Views

n_scott_pearson,

Apparently the system information is on the Optane SSD (to which users have no access*). Some of that information is on the HDD (to which users have no access*).

Here is my internal HDD configuration:

 Internal_Hard_Drives.jpg

The 1.12GB partition (end of the drive?) must be the Intel area, but why so big? The 12.9Gb partition must be the Windows Recovery area. If possible, I would like to know what is in those partitions.
I will be using Seagate DiscWizard to perform the cloning operation. It appears to have the capability of resizing partitions during the clone.

Note: My Dell XPS 8920 come with the Intel Optane Memory already enabled. I installed the second internal drive before my first boot. How Drive 0 became "D" and Drive 1 became "C" (boot drive) is a bit of a mystery. All I did was to plug in the cables for the new drive. It works, so that is all that matters. This is the machine where I want to upgrade the boot drive.

 

I am leery about Windows 11, but I at least want to see it, without messing up my current system, and without that ridiculous ten day Windows 11 test period. If nothing else, I will have a secure, off-computer backup of my boot drive (on the 1TB OEM drive).

 

From AlHill:
"And, if you intend on cloning a system drive to put into some other machine, do not do that."

From what I have read, Windows 10 has some code that ties it to the motherboard, to keep people from installing illegal copies of Windows. My other computer (Dell Insipron 530, circa 2009. Primarily boots into Windows 7) already has the 'free' copy of Windows 10 on the second internal hard drive, but I almost never boot into that hard drive (changed through BIOS).

* This 'should' prevent users from FUBARing their systems. Wherever there i a 'foolproof' system, there is some fool who will prove it.

AlHill
Super User
2,768 Views

And, if you intend on cloning a system drive to put into some other machine, do not do that.  You could be causing yourself problems.

 

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[Windows 11 is the new Vista]

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,747 Views

This is exactly why I was telling you to disable the Optane module so that all data cached on it is flushed to the HDD. This can include parts of folder data structures, file contents, etc. 

The actual Optane data for the HDD is stored in the 'last' 10 MB or so of the drive; there should be no partition covering this area.

The multiple Recovery Partitions are the result of either a Windows upgrade operation or an incorrect (IMHO) Windows 10 install (you should always delete all partitions on a drive before letting the Windows 10 installer do its thing). Still, if you are going to clone the drive, you are stuck with these partitions. Make sure that the additional space on the new drive is assigned to your OS partition.

Hope this helps,

...S

noquiexis
Beginner
2,732 Views

,

Thanks again!

You wrote, "The multiple Recovery Partitions are the result of either a Windows upgrade operation or an incorrect (IMHO) Windows 10 install"  Windows 10 came pre-installed by Dell when I bought the system. I have no clue why there are so many partitions, or what is in them.

I see that there is a method to view the contents of these hidden partitions, but I will not do that on my OEM boot drive. Once I get the new hard drive, get it cloned from the OEM boot drive, and then verify that the new drive can boot properly, then will I look at these partitions. I wont even chance messing up the OEM drive.

If there is nothing that I need in some of those hidden partitions, I might delete them (on the new hard drive, not on the OEM drive) and reclaim that space. The worst that could happen is that I may have to re-clone the new drive.

noquiexis
Beginner
2,688 Views

n_scott_pearson,

The 'new' HDD (Seagate ST2000DM008, 2TB) that I ordered from Amazon was actually a "Recertified Product" (translation: "Used"). It arrived 1 July 2021. I first disabled Optane, then removed my current "D" drive (ST2000DM008, 2TB) and installed the new HDD in its place.

I tried to use the Seagate Recovery Boot disk, but the program could not Lock drive C, so I booted into Windows 10 and used that version of DiskWizard. The cloning operation did reboot into DOS (the Seagate GUI) and did its job.

When the program finished, I let it reboot the system, rather than shut it down. I wanted to check the new disk before swapping the drives. The system hung before the Windows Lock Screen image showed. I assumed that was because both drives were labeled "C".

After I shut down, swapped the drives, and re-installed my "D" drive, the system still froze before showing the Lock Screen image. Now I was getting worried. I booted into the Windows 10 Recovery DVD and tried to "Repair Files that keep Windows from starting" (or whatever it is called). No joy. I went into DOS (Command Prompt) from the Recovery DVD and verified that drive "C" actually had files on it. I also discovered that the system no longer recognized my original "D" drive. By now I was freaking out.

After a few hours of pulling my hair out (about 4 am), I removed the new "boot' drive and re-installed my OEM boot drive (Seagate ST1000DM010, 1TB). The system did boot into Windows 10, although dog-slow without the help from Optane, and my "D" drive came back. (The actress on my desktop wallpaper never looked so good!)

Tomorrow (3 July), when my nerves calm down, I will Disable Optane, disconnect both of my internal HDDs, and try the new 'boot' disk by itself. I figure that either

a) the used disk has some problems, or

b) something went afoul during the cloning operation.

Maybe the Windows system files did not get properly recorded. If nothing else, I will try to format the disk, to see if it is usable. For now, I did re-enable Optane to make life easier.

noquiexis
Beginner
2,687 Views

To all viewers:

I am accustomed to forums where all posts are sequential. Please refer to the time stamps to follow the correct flow of information on this topic. Sorry for the confusion!

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,683 Views

If everyone would use the Reply window at the very bottom of the page, this wouldn't happen - but many people want the threaded responses (I personally don't like them).

Regardless, let us know. BTW, I have been burned using refurb parts and my mantra is: Never Again!

...S

noquiexis
Beginner
2,657 Views

I still have no idea how Optane works with the HDD, but my system came with Optane "Enabled" and running. Perhaps Optane puts its goodies in an unspecified place, at the end of the hard drive, but not in a visible partition. I have "Hidden Fies" checked to show everything, but the Optane file on the HDD never shows up. I have no "Unallocated" partitions, but Optane does speed things up quite a bit.

 

Using Seagate DiskWizard "Clone" application the first time, I had 'limited' success with the new hard drive. The computer got as far as the Windows 10 wallpaper before it froze.


Windows 10 Disk Management did not show the boot record type, which should have been GPT, but not knowing this, I chose MBR during the first Seagate DiskWizard clone operation. The second time around, I did set this to GPT.

 

After the second clone operation, I got the Lock Screen image, the sign-on screen, then a black screen where my wallpaper and icons should have been. The MiniTool backup splash screen did remind me that I did not do that yet, but nothing else ever showed up. After waiting about 30 minutes, I gave up and put my OEM boot drive back in service.

 

While the cloned drive was in place, I looked at the drive in DOS ("Command Prompt" from the Windows 10 Rescue DVD). The directories and files are there, but Windows just has trouble 'getting out of bed in the morning'. I am now convinced that the drive is OK, but Seagate DiskWizard is unequal to the task of making a boot clone for Windows 10. The user's manual does not list Windows 10 among the tested GUI's. I could pay for other software to clone the OEM HDD, but that will have to wait until I get some more cash for that. I do have my boot drive backed up and ready for Restore, but having a drive ready to go would be nicer.


I do thank the folks who offered advice. This would have been harder without your support.

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,647 Views

The control information stored on the physical drive is stored at the end of the drive space and this space is not used by any partition. That is, it will *never* be visible to you.

If you have an Optane Memory Module and a HDD/SSD or you have an Optane SSD (which is essentially an Optane Memory Module and a SSD in the same physical NVMe device) and the Optane Memory Module is actively accelerating the performance of the HDD/SSD, then the Optane Memory Module will not be visible. That is, the Optane Memory Module and the HDD/SSD will appear to be a single drive that appears to be the size of the HDD/SSD by itself.

You could try using Macrium Reflect or a similar product to perform the cloning operation.

.Hope this helps,

...S

 

noquiexis
Beginner
2,633 Views

,

 

Many thanks again!  Back when I had Windows 98SE (seems like forever ago), I bought PowerQuest Partition Magic. I may have used it more than once, but I doubt it. Macrium seems to understand that most home users will do the same. Paying from $31 to well over $100 for one-time-use software is a bit to ask. If my problem is the disc and not the Seagate software, testing it with another software package should reveal the source of the problem.

 

My version of the Optane Memory Module has a built-in SSD of 16GB. The 1TB HDD and that show up as a single unit when Optane is Enabled. I cannot defrag the HDD while Optane is Enabled, so I assume that something else keeps it in order.

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,587 Views

Nothing AFAIK. IMHO, if you have a HDD that is being accelerated, you should, say, every couple of months, disable Optane caching (so all changes flushed to HDD), do a full defrag on the HDD and then re-enable Optane caching. BTW, the same goes for backups; disable the Optane caching, make a backup and then re-enable Optane caching. If you want to be super safe, you might want to combine these operations and do it a little more often, say, every two weeks. From a backup standpoint, the better approach is to use software that does incremental backups to secondary media.

...S

noquiexis
Beginner
2,556 Views

Sorry to say, but the clone operation was a dismal failure. I wound up "Reset"ing the 'new' hard drive and installing all of my software, doing Windows preferences, and Windows Updates the long way. The clone would have eliminated all of that.

 

Seagate DiscWizard did copy the partitions, but the 'new' drive never did get a good boot to a functional Windows environment.

Macrium Reflect failed while trying to copy the first Recovery partition on the Dell OEM boot drive. Macrium found errors in that partition. (I used the "Intelligent" method that only copies sectors that have data in them.) Perhaps this is why Seagate DiscWizard could not create a good boot drive.

 

I did have Intel Optane memory disabled during the clone attempts and the Reset operation. That operation was started through the Windows Recovery DVD, so it used some form of GUI other than Windows.

 

Although this was not the solution that I was seeking, I will mark it as "Solved".  If anyone does successfully clone a boot drive on a system with Intel Optane memory, do please make a note about it here.

 

My thanks to those who did try to help. It is greatly appreciated.

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