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Europa library docs?

Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
1,435 Views

Are there any plans to externally document some or all of the Europa library? It's not the easiest thing in the world to figure out, and it's hard to write a wizard-generatable peripheral without using Europa. 

 

I'm about halfway through my FIFO interface design, and it's tough to keep things legible in Perl. On top of that, I'm not sure I'm doing it right, and it's kind of hard to test this thing.
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9 Replies
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

I don't know if there are plans to publish the Europa library docs. 

We may be able to answer your questions directly.  

I'll see what I can find out.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

I seem to have it working. There's only one snafu that can hold me up from posting the component: the Europa library puts an Altera copyright in the generated Verilog file. Naturally, I'd want my own copyright and the LGPL notice there instead. Any ideas?

Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

Hi Mike, 

 

I have to say... I am impressed. Europa is, in my opinion, one of the coolest things since sliced bread. I really dislike writing VHDL/Verilog now... 

 

To answer your question -- I am not suggesting you do this, or saying that you even *can* do this, but then we ship most things open source, so addressing your question is pretty easy, just grep your sopc_builder installation for the string "Copyright © 1991-2004 Altera Corporation"... I think the answer will present itself.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

 

--- Quote Start ---  

originally posted by jesse+jul 29 2004, 04:23 pm--><div class='quotetop'>quote (jesse @ jul 29 2004, 04:23 pm)</div> 

--- quote start ---  

i have to say... i am impressed.[/b] 

--- quote end ---  

 

by what? 

 

<!--quotebegin-jesse@Jul 29 2004, 04:23 PM 

europa is, in my opinion, one of the coolest things since sliced bread. i really dislike writing vhdl/verilog now... 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Yes, it looks like it would be that, but when you look at the Europa-using components in the library... almost all of the comments have been stripped out. Add in the fact that Perl naturally obfuscates things (esp. when you don&#39;t "use English;"), and it gets painful. (Disclaimer: I know Perl and Python, and given the choice, I use Python for anything bigger than about ten lines.) 

 

In addition, it looks like the em_whatever.pl files were generated by something else (the large regions of whitespace are a dead giveaway). So we&#39;ve got metaprogramming happening here. It&#39;s like trying to write a C++ parser without flex & bison. 

 

My head hurts. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

originally posted by jesse@Jul 29 2004, 04:23 PM 

to answer your question -- i am not suggesting you do this, or saying that you even *can* do this, but then we ship most things open source, so addressing your question is pretty easy, just grep your sopc_builder installation for the string "copyright © 1991-2004 altera corporation"... i think the answer will present itself. 

--- Quote End ---  

 

D&#39;oh!
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

Just impressed by your quick success creating IP with europa, that&#39;s all.  

 

I think you&#39;ll agree that the prospects of supporting a new design-entry language are not trivial; perhaps one day europa will be in a different state than its in now.... Its kind of like putting a glass window and quick-release screws around a swiss-made mechanical clock... its just so tempting to open it up and play with it, but....
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

 

--- Quote Start ---  

originally posted by jesse+jul 29 2004, 06:22 pm--><div class='quotetop'>quote (jesse @ jul 29 2004, 06:22 pm)</div> 

--- quote start ---  

just impressed by your quick success creating ip with europa, that&#39;s all.[/b] 

--- quote end ---  

 

there&#39;s not much complexity in what i&#39;m doing; no state machines, for example, so i didn&#39;t need much. that said, i&#39;m wondering what i&#39;m missing. 

 

<!--quotebegin-jesse@Jul 29 2004, 06:22 PM 

i think you&#39;ll agree that the prospects of supporting a new design-entry language are not trivial; perhaps one day europa will be in a different state than its in now.... 

--- Quote End ---  

 

It&#39;s not a design-entry language, though, it&#39;s a design-generation language. In the best case (i.e. we&#39;re not there yet), Europa would be to Verilog as Flex/Bison is to C. Also, support could be minimal, i.e. "support available only if we can spare it." I&#39;m not staking any projects on my ability to write with Europa; it&#39;s nice to be able to do, but there are other ways to get things done. 

 

That said, IMHO, Europa may be overkill for us outsiders. While working on this, I wondered what it would take to make a preprocessor language for Verilog, much like how cpp related to C in ye olden days. My original design was actually Verilog with a bunch of# if/#else/#endif blocks and macros as placeholders for wizard arguments. Or it might be nice if there were a way (in Interface to User Logic) to take SOPC Builder WSA parameters and map them to Verilog module parameters, and for it to handle multiple master/slave interfaces. Just dreaming... 

 

This also gets back towards the glaring hole in Altera Verilog when you want to parameterize things (like arrays of control registers): the lack of multidimensional elements and arrays of modules. The lack of the former could be ameliorated by the presence of the latter, but no joy. 

 

 

--- Quote Start ---  

originally posted by jesse@Jul 29 2004, 06:22 PM 

its kind of like putting a glass window and quick-release screws around a swiss-made mechanical clock... its just so tempting to open it up and play with it, but.... 

--- Quote End ---  

 

Coward. http://forum.niosforum.com/work2/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif If you don&#39;t play with it, then "Swiss quality" will only be a concept you can just take at face value. 

 

Anyway, now I just gotta write the docs for this beast, zip it up, and set up a web site to host it on...
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

Mike, 

 

You&#39;re amazing! (and I&#39;m not just trying to suck up http://forum.niosforum.com/work2/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif ) 

 

Why don&#39;t you post it here on the Post Your IP Forum? Just wondering.  

 

Ken
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

 

--- Quote Start ---  

originally posted by kenland@Jul 30 2004, 08:43 AM 

why don&#39;t you post it here on the post your ip forum?  just wondering. 

--- Quote End ---  

 

I just have to make sure all my ducks are in a row first. Worked out the LGPL/FDL stuff yesterday. I&#39;ve just got to run some more tests and finish the docs, make sure I didn&#39;t forget anything, test my site, and then I&#39;ll be posting it here. 

 

Half the point of open source is making it easy to get a lot of eyeballs looking at something and find all the bugs. I&#39;m really interested in knowing what someone who actually knows Europa/SOPC Builder has to say about it; it&#39;s probably full of rough edges. 

 

If this all works out well, then maybe I&#39;ll post a few other things, like that mailbox-interrupt thing I described a couple days back. Or maybe I&#39;ll go crazy and post my rabid watchdog component. http://forum.niosforum.com/work2/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif  

 

One thing at a time, though... @_@
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor I
74 Views

If you post it I&#39;ll use it to test with! 

:-)
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