Getting Started

[Altera_Forum]

Im taking a class in digital design, and we've been asked to purchase the  

up2 board (altera-max-plus-II based).  Is this board big enough to run nios w/ linux 2.6 or MicroC/OS-II? If not, is there sub $200 board that can be used to learn off of instead? (Ideally Id like to just run linux and maybe a uart, thats about it). Is the linux download section down or is special access required? I couldnt find Linux.  Finally, I dont think the labs at our school (UCI) has Quartus III yet, but I understand  the downloadable version of Nios (w/IDE) will work fine as long as the jtag programmer stays plugged in. Is that right? MicroC/OS-II is only available if you purchase Nios?  I know Im going outside of the scope of the class, but I think it would be more  useful to me.   Thanks!!

[Altera_Forum]

I'm almost 99% sure you won't get a NIOS in that device (low on resources and Altera probably only supports APEX and up for NIOS). 

 The cheapest out there is probably the Cyclone board from Parallax. (Cyclone is a low cost version of Stratix).  For 200 (USD I&#39;m assuming) is a little much for the UP2 board if you ask me. With the parallax board you will still have trouble getting an OS in there though (the board is just an FPGA, with some RS232 download capablity)  Also what school do you go to so that we can all boo them for making students pay for an FPGA board http://forum.niosforum.com/work2/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif   The downloadable version you&#39;re talking about (that&#39;s NIOS II btw) requires Quartus II version 4 and up. At home I have the parallax EP1S10ES board and I&#39;m able to use the Quartus 4.1 webpack (that&#39;s free) and the downloadable NIOS II. Yes it will continue to work while connected (that&#39;s so you can&#39;t put it into a product without paying for it). The downloadable one has everything except OS support.  If you&#39;re school has asked you to buy a UP2 board then I think they want you designing hardware only (ie you don&#39;t really need a NIOS or an OS for that matter). If that&#39;s the case try parallax out, you&#39;ll get a much more powerful chip that&#39;s only a couple years old (UP2 is old, they use the Flex 10k70).  If you do get the 10k70 board I think you can use Quartus with it (do yourself a favour and use Quartus)  I hope that gave you some ideas, if not let us know and I&#39;ll try again, or someone else can offer some ideas

[Altera_Forum]

Take a look at the boards available at Microtronix... They&#39;ve got a few in your price range with, at least, Cyclones on them... 

 Cheers,  - slacker

[Altera_Forum]

Have your class or program director contact Altera (or me!) about the University program. 

 I&#39;ll forward the info to the right person.

[Altera_Forum]

Ya the uni. program was pretty good. My school managed to get a lab of Cyclone NIOS development boards for very little at all. 

 Sounds like you want to be able to do OS type stuff so Cyclone or Stratix is the way to go.

[Altera_Forum]

Thanks all, I talked to my instructor and he says he&#39;s been using the up2 for a long time, and that its easy to learn. According to the syllabus we are going to synthesize a microchip PIC on it! He also says they are in the process of revamping some of the course material for next semester... unfortunately Im taking it now! 

 Probably the best thing for me is buy the up2 (to do the labs and keep up with the class) but would really like to purchase a cyclone board to experiment with nios and linux.  Theres a cyclone board here, its pricier than the parallax cyclone but it has a nios port ready to go on it: http://www.jopdesign.com/cyclone/index.jsp (http://www.jopdesign.com/cyclone/index.jsp)   Does either the parallax cyclone FastPack or the Jopdesign board have enough resources (gates, memory, etc) to run linux on the nios?  Thanks!

[Altera_Forum]

That board would be nice since it has a lot of RAM. 

 Parallax only gives you the FPGA, and programming ability, so you have to use the on-board RAM.  I&#39;ve seen some other cost effective boards out there too (check the development board section of the altera site, they have a list).

[Altera_Forum]

We offer a 25% discount off of our products to universities or university students. You might want to consider our uKit board (retail $295, $221 for universities). More information is available here (http://www.microtronix.com/product_microkit.htm). 

 It comes with uClinux 2.6 and Nios II preloaded and ready to go, with the fastest core available now (the kit ships with 110Mhz although we have an unofficial 116Mhz core running here). It also works with all the free software - Quartus II Web Edition and the Nios II IDE.  Let me know if you have any questions.  Best regards, Robert Microtronix

[Altera_Forum]

Enliteneer, that looks like exactly what you need. And for the price, you are getting a lot (I have a low cost Stratix board but it&#39;s just the FPGA and it was more then that). 

 Too bad I wasn&#39;t in the market for a board now, could have got something more useful for me http://forum.niosforum.com/work2/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif   If they have a stratix version and it&#39;s not too much more you may even want to consider it (depends on what you want to do with the logic really).

[Altera_Forum]

Thanks Robert,  

 Since the cables for the microkit are an additional $100, do you know if a regular byteblaster (as opposed to the byteblaster 2) will work in programming the device? (I dont mean to sound cheap, but Im already spending a bundle this semester, and any money I can save the better!)  Also, does it come with all the gcc and toolchains needed to compile and configure the uclinux kernal or would that be part of the Nios II IDE?  Thanks!!

[Altera_Forum]

Hi enliteneer, 

 By regular byteblaster, do you mean the ByteBlasterMV? If that is what you have, you can probably get away with just using it. You should be able to JTAG cores (.sof files) and software onto the board with that cable. The only thing you won&#39;t be able to do is download cores directly to the active serial configuration device (.pof files). This means that every time you reset/power off the board, you&#39;ll have to redownload your core. (One of our software developers here is still using a ByteBlasterMV without trouble)  Everything you need for building uclinux can be downloaded for free. Quartus II Web Edition and the NiosII Evaluation from Altera; Nios II Linux from this board (in the Linux 2.6 Distribution for Nios II forum). The toolchain is a part of the NiosII distribution.  Dennis Scott Microtronix Datacom Ltd.

[Altera_Forum]

I talked to the Uni program person today. He said that we can definately get you on the program, we just have to know about you :-) 

 Please email me khallbec@altera.com  with your details.  This is NOT the microtronix university program. But it&#39;ll help with other things...

[Altera_Forum]

What board do you get with that program now? 

 Back in the day you got a UP2 board I think, but at the end of my stay at university we had a lab of NIOS I, Cyclone (and a few Stratix) development boards.

[Altera_Forum]

Not sure, but I know it&#39;s at least a cyclone or stratix board. I&#39;d assume that they&#39;re migrating to Nios II now also. 

The person in charge of it really pushes to get fairly new stuff out there.

[Altera_Forum]

Some random thoughts re-reading this post. 

1. MAX ++ isn&#39;t even distributed anymore. It&#39;s all part of Quartus.  2. There are 2 Quartus&#39; Quartus (pre 2000) and Quartus II (post 2000). No Quartus III that I know of. 3. Use up to date programs and boards, using old stuff won&#39;t prepare you for the workplace as well as a new board and the new technology that goes with it.  that&#39;s all... :-)

[Altera_Forum]

Here here. 

 I remember when my school got the Cyclone boards. I talked to lab tech. to see if he bought them last year (summer) when they were $500USD a pop. He said it was an even better deal then that. Now if only students didn&#39;t break them so often (seen the flash card slot ripped right off one once). But I think the big killer of those boards was not putting a socket around the jtag (many dummies plugging jtag in backwards).  Since we are talking about development boards, when can we expect to actually see Stratix II boards ready for purchase (for actual purchase and not just advertised)? (we are getting really antsy in the pantsy for them here). Before we develop our own boards (if we end up doing that), we would like to see what Stratix II can do for us.

[Altera_Forum]

Don&#39;t know when you will see them (I&#39;m not in that area). But I have 3 I&#39;m testing on. I saw them on the Altera site when I was looking for a stratix PCI board, so you may be able to order them now.