Does the recent problem concerns laptop i9 14900HX or only desktop cpus ?

[DaVePL]

Hi, does this problem also concerns laptop processors for example i9 14900HX ? Or only desktop processors ?

[Ladds]

I would like to know answet to this question as well.

[RandyT_Intel]

Hello DaVePL,

Thank you for posting to our community.

Based on in-depth analysis of the reported Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issues, Intel has determined that mobile products are not exposed to the same issue. 

Randy T. 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[hexaae]

@RandyT_Intel
Can you officially confirm that even if laptops HX CPUs cores can reach 1.57+V and run at 150+W (normal specs of gaming laptops with 13/14th CPUs) like the desktop counterparts, these can't be affected and are not exposed to the same issue?

[THEBOSS619]

Kindly, I would like to know if it's truly "mobile products are not exposed to the same issue. " then maybe there is a different issue that we don't know about or haven't been announced yet.

Why would Intel provided microcode update that supports & covers Intel HX CPUs with CPUID of B0671 and Core stepping of B0.

I mean OEMs started to release BIOS updates for those who have Intel HX series CPUs [13th/14th Gen].  If you want to know examples.. Dell already released BIOS update with 0x129 microcode... including a couple others OEMs too.

Can you elaborate more what is currently happening? Because it looks like there is a conflict of statements from OEM & Intel.

Thank you.

[RandyT_Intel]

Hello Everyone,

The symptoms being reported in 13th/14th Gen mobile systems – including system hangs and crashes – are common symptoms stemming from a broad range of potential software and hardware issues. Intel has not been able to correlate reports of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX or other mobile processors to the Vmin Shift Instability issue.

Again, based on in-depth analysis of the reported Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issues, Intel has determined that mobile products are not exposed to the same issue.

For BIOS updates, it's best to get information directly from the OEMs. A microcode patch (0x129) might help improve stability for systems experiencing issues. This patch will limit voltage requests above 1.55V to prevent instability in processors not currently experiencing issues. Analysis is ongoing to address other scenarios that can result in this Vmin shift on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors. Intel will share a progress update on this analysis by end of August.

Randy T.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[THEBOSS619]

Thank you for your reply and your time to write this message.

I would like to do one more request since you mentioned that Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX processors have other hardware issues not related to Vmin shift Instability issue. What kind of hardware related issue that is happening with Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX processors? If you can elaborate more on that.. would be great.

Can you confirm that the microcode patch (0x129) can be used for Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX processors? Since we have a couple of OEMs already providing BIOS updates with the microcode patch (0x129) to the Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX processors.

Thank you.

[hexaae]

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@RandyT_Intel wrote:

Hello Everyone,

The symptoms being reported in 13th/14th Gen mobile systems – including system hangs and crashes – are common symptoms stemming from a broad range of potential software and hardware issues. Intel has not been able to correlate reports of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX or other mobile processors to the Vmin Shift Instability issue.

Again, based on in-depth analysis of the reported Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issues, Intel has determined that mobile products are not exposed to the same issue.

For BIOS updates, it's best to get information directly from the OEMs. A microcode patch (0x129) might help improve stability for systems experiencing issues. This patch will limit voltage requests above 1.55V to prevent instability in processors not currently experiencing issues. Analysis is ongoing to address other scenarios that can result in this Vmin shift on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors. Intel will share a progress update on this analysis by end of August.

Randy T.

Intel Customer Support Technician

---

Sorry if I insist but I have not yet received a definite answer to my question above:

1) So, the Intel analysis is based solely on "reports" (the number of RMAs etc. from OEMs) and not on a technical analysis?

2) If core VIDs with mobile HX CPUs can reach values >1.55V running at more than 150W, can we still assume they "are not exposed to the same issue"? In other words: are HX CPUs still safe if their core VIDs have spikes above 1.55V?

[Duael]

Yes, i would like to know , cause mine spikes, even in iddle, at 1.56v and 1.610 even upper !!

Thanks a lot for your answer.

edit new record, doing just posting on this forum : 1.643

[pressed_for_time]

The VID voltage in HWInfo64 is not the same as as the Vcore - the voltage actually supplied to the CPU. VID is the voltage the core is asking for, Vcore is what it actually gets.

On my desktop machine HWInfo64 lists Vcore values under the motherboard information section, see graphic below

Even at idle there may be background processes taking place that load the CPU, the variation in Vcore seems to be normal. I have a discrete NVIDIA graphics card and that may be contributing to this (on a mobile computer a NVIDIA graphics chipset could be a factor).

[hexaae]

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@pressed_for_time wrote:

The VID voltage in HWInfo64 is not the same as as the Vcore - the voltage actually supplied to the CPU. VID is the voltage the core is asking for, Vcore is what it actually gets.

On my desktop machine HWInfo64 lists Vcore values under the motherboard information section, see graphic below

Even at idle there may be background processes taking place that load the CPU, the variation in Vcore seems to be normal. I have a discrete NVIDIA graphics card and that may be contributing to this (on a mobile computer a NVIDIA graphics chipset could be a factor).

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Ah! Can't find the Vcore in HWMonitor nor in HWiNFO64 for my laptop (ROG SCAR 18 G834JY)... mmh BIOS limitation?

[pressed_for_time]

HWInfo64 relies on a motherboard chipset sensor for Vcore readings. This because the chipset takes all of the VID requests and decides on a single Vcore value that is applied to all cores. The BIOS will control what range the Vcore values can be. If the maximum value is already 1.55 or less Vcore then this would be why the 14900HX like other mobile processors is not affected by the desktop CPU issues.

It is not clear whether your laptop lacks the Vcore sensor or whether it is not activated by the BIOS. It might be worth contacting ASUS to see what they say, if it is a BIOS setting you could try asking them to modify it so you can get a Vcore reading.

[THEBOSS619]

Most OEMs laptops doesn't have Vcore sensor as a kind of keeping production cost low. Even on Desktop motherboard space.. you only find it on expensive motherboard top tier stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not available for 97% of the laptops available on the market.

[Duael]

Thanks for that ! I've installed HwInfo because HwMonitor seems to be a little crazy in VIDS informations.

HwInfo64 show max VIDS at 1.58v (rare) and average 1.372v. But like @hexaae , I don't have any information for Vcore. The motherboard is detected in the resume but not in the sensors mode.

[hexaae]

... hence to be safe on recent gaming laptops we need OEMs to enable Vcore settings limitation in the BIOS, or the Intel microcode update.

[AMR41]

While Intel or the motherboard manufacturer fixes the problems.
There is a solution with power loss, but it allows to continue working without risk.
Power options to lower the temperature from Windows 11 PRO.
Create a restore point before you do this, just in case.
Type Control Panel and go to Power Options.
You will be in balanced
Change the plan settings
Change the "advanced power settings"
a small screen appears and in it
"processor power manager"
And it will be at 5% and 90% but the
"Processor Performance Enhancement Mode"
which will be hidden.
To see it you have to go to Regedit
y ir a Equipo\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\be337238-0d82-4146-a960-4f3749d470c7
select folder be337238-0d82
And in Atributes the value will be 1 and you have to change it to 2 hexadecimal and accept.
And now you will see “Processor Performance Enhancement Mode”.
Set it to Disabled (there are Disabled, Enabled, Aggressive, Efficiency Enabled, Aggressive Efficiency, Aggressive Efficient Guaranteed, Aggressive Efficient Guaranteed).
And with that the temperatures and voltage go down.
And they do go down:

In Disabled, Cinebench 23: “SingleCore 1270 points" and "MultiCore 23342 points".
With CPU Package Tem. max. 48ºC and Average 35ºC and Vcore Max. 0.972 V and Average 0.902 V.
The PC is at 32º without doing anything. 
And this is it:
Intel Core i7-14700K 3.4 GHz 20-Core Processor
Thermaltake TOUGHAIR 710 81.96 CFM CPU Cooler
Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard version BIOS American Megatrend International LLC FG 12/09/2023
2x Kingston FURY Beast 32 GB (1 x 32 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory
Gigabyte WINDFORCE OC GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB Video Card
Antec P101 Silent ATX Mid Tower Case
Corsair RM750x SHIFT 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular Side Interface ATX Power Supply
Storage 2x Samsung 990 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
1 Samsung 870EVO 1TB
1 Samsung 870EVO 2TB
1 SanDisk SSD PLUS 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive
1 Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB 3.5" 5400 RPM Internal Hard Drive
1 Removable (HDD Thosiba 500 GB)

[hexaae]

TEMPORARY WORKAROUND

@AMR41 

Yes, I suggested a similar temporary workaround in the ASUS forum reducing power settings and never saw again a VID request over 1.47V, at the cost of a certain performance loss of course (~23000 in Cinebench 23 instead of ~32000):

Rif.: [INTEL]-How To Update Your Microcode for Int... - Pagina 9 - Republic of Gamers Forum - 1034755 (asus.com)

[AMR41]

If for times of process need, you set ‘Processor Performance Enhancement Mode’ to ‘Aggressive Efficiency’.
Cinebench 23 reaches 2150 points in SingleCore and 35168 in MultiCore and the temperature gives a maximum of 101ºC (only 2 seconds) and average of 41ºC, with Vcore 1.392V max and 0.885V average.
So the loss seems to be minimal.

[barrybbrooks]

Not sure if members caught the topic, this topic is concerning the i9 14900HX. It's a mobile processor that is installed in high preformance laptops. Latops from most OEMs have sensors that not able to read Vcore, laptop rely of VIDs, voltages supplied by the laptop motherboard.

You're giving irralalent information and possable solutions as laptop OEMs do not provide this level of customization in thier UEFI settings or thier Branded WIndows application. On my Alienware m18 R2, the best I can do in the Alienwae Command Center is reduce the voltages with a slider to no lower voltage to 1.475 the frequency between 5200MHz - 5900MHz to the proficiency cores.

My laptop is a Alienware m18 R2, RTX 4090 (Laptop) and 32GB 5600MHz ram modules.

I'm on my second Alienware m18 R2, the first one, reguardless of the allowed customize settings, the laptop spiked to 1.679 volts and temps as high as 112°C. the laptop would register 12 to 18 Windows Hardware Errors (WHEA) and video stutter during a 1 hour of Fortnite session To me that was a major concern, Dell told my this was with-in specs, After 14 days I demanded a replacement.

The second Alienware no long booted into the UEFI and reported no memory found, I replace the ram modules and still received the same error. Dell Tech said based on the fact that the system would not detect the memory, it must be a defected motherboard. I do not have confidence that this pltop will be stable or will work out well. I'm crossing my fingers. I'm now giving Dell the opitunty to repair the laptop at their repair center. My thoughts are, the processors memory controller that is not able to tollarate the voltages form the mother board or disapate the heat.

I also do not have convidence in Intels claim that mobile processors are not affected by the microcode algorithm issue..

Dell has worked on 11 BIOS updates, only releasing seven to the public updates since its releast onthe Alienware m18 RR, this also updated the microcode patch (0x129).

looks like a pig, acts like a pig, and sounds like a pig, it must a pig, Right?

[RandyT_Intel]

Hello,

The symptoms being reported in the press on 13th/14th Gen mobile systems – including system hangs and crashes – are common symptoms stemming from a broad range of potential software and hardware issues. Intel has not been able to correlate reports of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen HX or other mobile processors to the Vmin Shift Instability issue.

I wanted to share this links that I believe many of you will find helpful. It's filled with information and resources that might address some of the questions and concerns you've had.

Intel Core 13/14th Gen Instability Update - Future Products Unaffected + Current Gen Product Updates - Intel Community

Microcode (0x129) Update for Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors - Intel Community

Intel® Gen 13/14 K-SKU Desktop Processors Critical Q&A

If you have any additional questions or concerns after reviewing the link, I kindly ask that you create your own thread. This will help ensure that your specific inquiries are addressed more efficiently and thoroughly.

Randy T.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[hexaae]

Please, tell me Intel will cooperate with Microsoft to provide microcode update 129 or incoming 130 in a general Windows Update (system file C:\Windows\System32\mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll), for everybody as it happened in the past.

This way even mobile HX processors will be automatically covered, to be safe.