Processors
Intel® Processors, Tools, and Utilities
14819 Discussions

I7 14700k strange spikes of temps

Cris86
Beginner
15,673 Views

Hi everyone, at the end of december 2023 i made my new build which is composed by the i7 14700k mounted on a MSI PRO Z790-A WIFI (MS-7E07) and cooled by the NZXT Kraken Elite 360 RGB and placed inside the NZXT H9 Flow case. Everything works fine (i have some problems with the NZXT Cam app but is not linked to this thread) but even i know that the new i7 can run hot, i noticed strange behavior by checking the temps with HWiNFO during my daily use (i always been a bit paranoic about temps even with the old pc).

I'll explain: At the moment i use only MSI Center and HWiNFO64 while i was forced to disable the NZXT Cam (for the issue above, probably due to some bugs in the recent updates of the app that sometimes causes the shutdown of the USBs ports at the boot of them pc, and forces me to shutdown the pc via button because the keyboard and mouse won't work anymore until reboot even for two months i never had any issue with both programs running together). Anyway as said i use MSI Center with the user scenario set to personal with fans around 40% until the temps reach over 50-60° so then the fans increase to adapt to the temperature.

By checking during the normal daily use (firefox with 4-5 tabs opened, maybe a couple of programs running but doing nothing heavy and some normal apps in the tray + windows doing his windows things in background where the CPU never went over 10-15%) i noticed via HWiNFO64 that even in my room the temps are normally between 18° to 22° and the temp of the core is for the most of the time between 27° to 33° (which are extremely good temp for this kind of processor) sometimes HWiNFO64 records some spikes of temp that can reach even 70° or 80° (for very short amount because the medium temp is always low) even the pc seems idling.

By checking the single cores temp, i noticed that some of them sometimes have spikes of 20°-30° higher than others.

When i made the pc, i did some bench test and with Cinebench i reached under load temps of 89-91 which are normal. I started chcecking deeper the temp due to these spikes that to me seems strange with the CPU barely over 5-10% or, like yesterday, while i was in game (Assetto Corsa) when i noticed a lag of a couple of seconds and i discovered that the temp reached the 92°.

Is this normal or i should be worried?

Attached some screens from HWiNFO, i hope to be exaustive enough to let you understand my worries and give me some feedback, thanks to everyone.
Cris

0 Kudos
46 Replies
KrissyG
New Contributor II
4,443 Views

Yes, it looks plastic. In that case a contact frame should improve the contact betweem the CPU IHS and the water block.

With a plastic 'back plate' more torque on the screws/nuts will result in the motherboard bending slightly and that's it. 
But what you need is the IHS of teh CPU to become straight/flat, so a motherboard that bends is a contradiction to what you need.

I also use the Noctua NTH2 thermal paste, it's performance is very good and i could not find anything better.
That thermal grizzly thermal paste is not better for me, at least it did worse than NTH2 in the tests i made, and i repeated the tests few times, NTH2 goes over 300W on the XTU CPU memory stress test, but the thermal grizzly does max 280W.....a noticable diffeence.

But i have to say, you have some nice PC case, and you hide it under the table lol

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
4,422 Views

As soon as i can i will try to check if the screw are too tight and maybe cause some bending, who knows. Maybe is really a stupid thing like that which cause this extreme temp only why doing something a bit energy-demanding. In that case i will keep in mind also the contact frame for the price it has, it will not a big deal.

 

Based on the fact i knew before that those new CPU were hot as hell i did deeper research before, but i found that Noctua was working fine for most of the people.

I've just discovered that the nephew of my friend have my same setup (except for the GPU which is way newer) so i will ask him what were his own temps, in order to check if his pc behave in the same manner of mine or not.

I'm forced to hide it under the table unfortunately: my office room is quite small, my 180cm IKEA table have not enough space on the left becayse of the monitors and on the right is a crazy idea in winter due to the fact there's the radiators just at the end of the table and by having already high temp with the pc far from them, i imagine it would not be a cool idea move the pc near them ahahahah

0 Kudos
KrissyG
New Contributor II
4,370 Views

@Cris86 wrote:

As soon as i can i will try to check if the screw are too tight and maybe cause some bending, who knows. Maybe is really a stupid thing like that which cause this extreme temp only why doing something a bit energy-demanding.


no no, that is not what i meant. 
It's more like the water block mount, does not has enough pressure on the CPU IHS to make it straight/flat (if it's crooked). 
And without a massive back plate, it can not deliver enough of that pressure, instead the motherboard bends. 

Sorry,  i am not so good at explainging stuff.
However, i did forget that i can use my backup hardware to illustrate what i mean by "bending the motherboard".
The example here is not perfect, the LGA2011 has a stock back plate with a thickness of 2,5mm.....there is no way that can bend.
And the stock CPU mount, has another plate (that is where those 4 bolts sit in) with a thickness of 1,5mm, nothing is going anywhere.

But, let's assume, that without additional back plate, the motherboard can indeed bend....

KrissyG_0-1713129748189.png

 



KrissyG_1-1713130250965.png

 



 

the setup on the right delivers 100% of the pressure to the CPU, as nothing else can bend, only the CPU can bend.
And you want to bend the CPU, if it's not crooked, then nothing will happen.

So a contact frame will do exactly that, it will force the CPU to the stock back plate, and the stock back plate would be obviously not crooked in any way.....i hope at least.

KrissyG_1-1713129372963.png

 

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
4,308 Views

@KrissyG You've explained it right, i simply replied immediately without reading what i wrote which is the opposite of what my mind was thinking about at that time, sorry.

As soon as i can i will investigate more about everything in order to start solve some of my questions, thanks

 

@n_scott_pearsonok, as said from the day zero, i know that the new CPUs were thermal demanding, and it's maybe ok, but what is not clear is why they have this kind of spikes of temp basically doing nothing. I mean, this morning i fired up my pc opened HWiNFO and reset the values, then i opened firefox on the google screen and opened thunderbird, nothing else except the basic windows task in background and immediately the cpu went to 65°.

What i don't understand yet is why is so easy to have the CPU in thermal throttle which is a thing that basically castrates performance. I mean, with my way older i7 2600k (ok is a **bleep** old cpu) when i was exporting from lightroom classic with the cpu at 100% i reached barely the 65° with a noctua air cooler, now by only reach the 35-45% load i reach the 70° and if i reach the 85%-95% load the temps hits in less than a second the 100° with the cpu that enter in thermal throttling...

 

@KrissyGabout your latest post which for me is way to advanced, i totally agree on the question about how is possible to pass from 30° to 100° and immediately back to 30° in fractions of seconds.

0 Kudos
n_scott_pearson
Super User
4,388 Views

Over time, processors have been getting more and more thermally volatile. Fact is, the processor can heat up faster than any current cooling solution can respond to it. Sure, if you could get a large enough mass sitting on the processor, you might be able to handle the instantaneous temperature increases being generated, but none of the available cooling solutions - including these AIO liquid cooling units - have this mass. Bottom line, you are going to see these instantaneous temperature changes and they are going to approach Tjmax. All you can do is ensure you have a cooling solution that is going to drag down the temperature as quickly as possible and which utilizes other resources (read: chassis fans) that are providing the coolest air possible to the processor cooling solution.

Just saying,

...S

0 Kudos
KrissyG
New Contributor II
4,331 Views

@n_scott_pearson wrote:

Fact is, the processor can heat up faster than any cooling current solution can respond to.


Yes....with a tiny transistors, yes it would, except....

hmm, seeing the spikes on the temperature i would claim, that the heat transfer from the CPU to what sits on the CPU is not good enough.

I am currently running that CPU with a MO RA3 radiator and a big water reservoir, in total about 2,5L of water capacity.
On 50% rpm of the pump, it takes almost 3 minutes for the water to complete 1 cycle.
This means, for that time, the water temperature stays constant, i should be able to do literally anything i want, and the CPU temperature should not rise within these 3minutes.

When i run any unlimited stress test, the temperature spikes immidiately to over 80°C, there is barely any delay, no slow rising of the temperature, it jumps from 30°C to 95°C just like that, and few seconds later thermal throttling hits the CPU.

KrissyG_2-1713132307971.png

in the screen shot, the 'expected' part of the graph, actually happens bcoz i set TDP limit to 25W, then i turn off the water pump, and then i run a stress test, the water in the water block + the water block itself has the capacity to keep temperatures under 60°C for about 1~2 minutes, and with pump on, the temperature spikes down.

With pump turned on....the 'how?', is at TDP of 250W, it takes like 1 second of CPU memory stress test, for the CPU to reach 92°C, and when i stop the stress test, as seen above, it takes also like 1 second for the temperature to spike down - to exactly, same value as bevore the test

Now if i set XTU logging monitor to 1000ms, the spikes will be logged with a duration of 1second, so from idle temp to 92°C in 1 second.
If i set it to 100ms, i get a duration of those spikes at about 1,2seconds (1200ms).


Raw monitoring log:

KrissyG_6-1713138274018.png

Raw as graph:

KrissyG_3-1713136559633.png

So the vertical value is the temperature (0°C  to 100°C), the horizontal is "value x 100ms" (105 x100ms = 10500ms = 10,5seconds).

Same data but shown in XTU:

KrissyG_5-1713136881073.png

 

How can it jump within 1 or 1,2 seconds from 30°C to almost 100°C and then spike down, as if nothing happened?
That is the question here.
So obviously, the cooling perfomance musst be there, since it spikes down, in same, if not quicker time.

0 Kudos
KrissyG
New Contributor II
4,281 Views
@Cris86 wrote:

@KrissyG You've explained it right, i simply replied immediately without reading what i wrote which is the opposite of what my mind was thinking about at that time, sorry.

As soon as i can i will investigate more about everything in order to start solve some of my questions, thanks

 

@KrissyGabout your latest post which for me is way to advanced, i totally agree on the question about how is possible to pass from 30° to 100° and immediately back to 30° in fractions of seconds.


take your time, none of us is going anywhere here.

FYI, you can let the XTU save all the data in form of a text file for example, you just have to click on the 'file logging' button, and at some point click on it again to stop logging. I man you can let it log 24/7 too. And right next to that button if a 'folder' icon, if you click on that, it will show you the log files, you can open them in notepad.
The last thing you may need, is to set the logging intervals, which is in milliseconds.
so 100ms = 0,1 of a second
1000ms = 1 second.
So you can make it save the data even 10 times per second if you want to.

KrissyG_0-1713172168794.png


Unfortunately, the log files are sometimes skipping some values, as seen here "Package TDP" is missing from the first entry, or the interval for package TDP can not be set to 100ms and therefore it shows it only once per second:

KrissyG_1-1713172741329.png

This data allows me to take a closer look at the values, which XTU graph is not designed to do.
So this here is Excel which i fed with only the values of temperatures, and the duration of the rising temperatures can be seen as more or less 1 second (the space between 1sec and 2sec is the spike we see on XTU).
In fact, it is not just a spike, the CPU takes some power, apparently checks for the temperature, and then it does that in several steps again and again.....marked on the graph with red dots:

KrissyG_2-1713172851990.png

the graph for power usage looks similar, the ptoblem is as you agreed, that the temperatures should not rise as extremely as it does.

If you want to, you can make such log file, then post it here as attachement, and i will transform it into a graph with way higher resolution. Except, like i mentioned, some values can not be looged with an interval of 10 times per second, and some values are indeed missing sometimes anyway.

0 Kudos
muhammadhammaf2424
3,852 Views

It sounds like you've put a lot of thought and care into your PC build, and it's understandable to be concerned about temperature spikes, especially with a new and powerful processor like the i7 14700k. Let's break down your situation and see if we can figure out what might be causing those temperature fluctuations.

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
3,787 Views

Hi @muhammadhammaf2424, as said, it's not the spikes that scare me (to be honest I don't feel comfortable to see spikes while the pc is doing almost nothing, but I can accept them when they are between safe values) as much as the fact that doing anything that requires some processing (with 50-80% of CPU load) it's very easy to reach the maximum temperature and related overshoot and performance drop caused by thermal throttling which is not normal for me.

0 Kudos
KrissyG
New Contributor II
3,716 Views

i think i found the problem, the actual chip is thinner, and we all know that thin metals....or silicone, heats up way quicker.
I would claim to have found the reason for the spikes as seen in this screenshot: 

KrissyG_0-1713821947011.png

 

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
3,674 Views

@KrissyG it could be, thinner metal can transfer fast the heat (and at the same time can reduce the heat quite fast).

If i don't remember wrong, reducing the thickness of the metal was the solution used by who did extreme overclocking in the past to reduce the heat, to be honest i have no idea on how they can manage now overclocking since the temperatures are extreme high even with a normal use.

At this point i will have to think about a solution to avoid reaching the temps where the thermal throttling hits the performance (contact frame?, undervolting?, to be honest i have no idea), if not, i will have a powerful/expensive pc that cannot be used at his max which is quite frustrating to be honest since the amount of money i've invested on it.

Thanks as always for your contribution, much appreciated as always

0 Kudos
KrissyG
New Contributor II
3,638 Views

@Cris86 wrote:

to be honest i have no idea on how they can manage now overclocking since the temperatures are extreme high even with a normal use


That is the difference! They run their systems for 1 second until some program can verify their results, not longer, just 1sec.
Then it happens at - 200°C or even colder than that.
At such temperatures, there is no way, that a hardware with max 500W putput, can bring out enough energy in 1 sec to counter such cold temperatures. 

The actual die, or the chip where the transistors sit, has become thinner and maybe in terms of surface smaller, but at the same time, instead of 100W, it can take 300W....3x as much of power on same surface is definitely not helping....this is the reason ater cooling no longer is fancy, but became almost a requirement if you want to use all the power you paid for.

The bottleneck here was not just the size of the transistors, but the fact, that the power consumption did not drop as much as their size. Despite that, i get 2,5~3 times more tasks done with a 13gen 16 core, than with a 3rd gen 6 core, while both CPUs did sonsume similar power.

Definitely mistakes have been done, im am pretty sure, that while testing, not only teh manufacturers of the motherboards , but also Intel knew, that the CPUs can draw as much as 500W. At which point some extreme water cooling should be suggested as a requirement.

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
3,536 Views

@KrissyGquite understandable to be honest, in fact, who run extreme overclocking does it in a researched ambient with systems to avoid the meltdown of the components with dry-ice and similar things.

I agree about Intel/MOBO manufacturer thing, but i fear that unfortunately there's no chance to fix this kind of issue for whom, like me, purchased them.

As customer i would love to receive an answer to my question directly from Intel, since i spent money for a CPU that perform extremely well as i expected but at the same time causes me a lot of question because due to the thermal throttling the system is basically underperforming even with a powerful AIO cooler which in fact does its work but only while the pc is idling, because as soon something energivory requires power, the temps ramp up fast beyond the "safety ones".

I saw a lot of forum fille with question like mine, and all talks about contact frame solution and undervolting, but this kind of things are out of my knowledge. I know i can do it by watching video of experts, but is not a thing i feel comfortable with doing. And for sure was not a thing i thinked i would be forced to do for cooling a thing that should have been tested to avoid this kind of problems.

To be honest i'm quite frustrated and disappointed at the same time. A friend of mine before i started purchasing the components of my new pc suggested me to purchase AMD instead Intel.
In my whole life, i only purchased Intel products and i always found them perfect for my use and i always trusted them.
But now i feel disappointed with myself for not having listened to my friend. His build is composed by Intel competitor microprocessors and he run with temperatures like mine while idling but almost 30 degrees lower while under stress.


To be honest i don't know what to do now. The only solution that came to my mind is to bring the pc to someone who knows what he does and which will know what to do to try to fix what is possible to fix even this will cost money that i didn't expect to spend...

0 Kudos
chugzillafx
New Contributor I
3,534 Views

cris without going back and reading everything from the beginning do you have your CPU set at true intel default specs?

253-253-307-56 seconds-CEP-MCE off.

I'm using a 14700K with air cooling and with the proper settings I'm getting over 35K on CBr23@ 70C.

the only thing i did besides change-adjust my settings are i set a loadline calibration.

i have a gigabyte board z790 aorus elite x wifi7.

no crazy spikes and very low idle temps etc.

 

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
3,476 Views

@chugzillafx unless MSI does crazy things automatically on CPU (which seems by watching videos from JayzTwoCents and others) no, i didn't changed anything (overall because as said, i never ever touched anything in bios in my life for this kind of values).

As said i don't have idea where and how check/set this value in general, even more with the MSI mobo which has a totally different bios that the one i was "trained off" for my old pc.

0 Kudos
chugzillafx
New Contributor I
3,464 Views

yeah, i have a gigabyte and i had to watch a lot of YouTube videos to learn what settings and where they are to change them.

so that's what you need to do......and set them to intel specs of 253-253-307-MCE-CEP off.

now if you can't find videos and don't feel comfy in the BIOS get XTU the official intel extreme tuning utility then you can easily make these adjustments there in the advanced tuning section.

the only thing that program doesn't allow us to do is set a loadline calibration, but you can undervolt there.

 

0 Kudos
KrissyG
New Contributor II
3,423 Views

@chugzillafx wrote:

the only thing that program doesn't allow us to do is set a loadline calibration, but you can undervolt there.

 


But what if GCC can? 

KrissyG_0-1713998831184.png

There is however a problem, maybe only on my side?
The GCC returns the values to defualt each time i restart the PC.

HOWEVER! the default is nothing else but BIOS, so, once you change those settings in BIOS, GCC will return to those after restart.
And since BIOS has now a search box you can type in and search the setting, it is extremely easy to set it.

0 Kudos
muhammadhammaf2424
3,001 Views

The NZXT Kraken Elite 360 RGB should provide adequate cooling for your CPU, but it's worth double-checking that it's functioning properly. Ensure that the pump is running smoothly, the radiator is not clogged with dust, and the fans are spinning correctly. You may also want to consider reapplying thermal paste to ensure optimal heat transfer between the CPU and the cooler.

0 Kudos
muhammadhammaf2424
2,958 Views

The NZXT Kraken Elite 360 RGB should provide adequate cooling for your CPU, but it's worth double-checking that it's functioning properly. Ensure that the pump is running smoothly, the radiator is not clogged with dust, and the fans are spinning correctly. You may also want to consider reapplying thermal paste to ensure optimal heat transfer between the CPU and the cooler.

0 Kudos
iNDAR
Beginner
1,101 Views

Hello Cris thank you for you for this thread i wanted to let you know that you can be rest assured that your issue is not with the coller but it is specific with the cpu or it has to do with windows since i have also noticed this issue with my build my i7 14700k shows temprature spikes when my pc was ideal with few chrome tabs i was just using my phone when i noticed my fan speed increasing 2-3 times i also dont havce nay anti virsu like malwarebytes just windows defender my ideal temprature is 38c and i have air coller.

0 Kudos
Cris86
Beginner
1,088 Views

Thanks for your contribution in this topic @iNDAR. Unfortunately, yet, i didn't found a solution.

 

Now i'm waiting for a friend who made builds by years with which i will unmount the cooler, and do all the things needed to check this issue since is not only a problem of spikes, but a problem of temps in general since i noticed that by using anything that requires more than 40% of CPU for more than 10 seconds throw the temps over the limits wenting in thermal throttling, which makes the CPU technically unusable if not for stupid tasks which is not the reason i spent money for it.

 

I spent money for a powerful CPU which, at the moment, can't be used as it's best yet. I will update this tread as soon as i discover what is the cause (if something wrong in the mounting of the cooler or some settings in the mobo itself).

0 Kudos
Reply