Intel Extreme Turning Utility - Thermal Throttling (Manufacture Compliance Certification program)

[WesleyO]

Greetings all,

I would like to suggest that you implement a certification program, where by stock standard bios configurations and bios updates are verified by Intel.

There are so many system, hitting the Intel Thermal Limit while running and sitting at 100degree C.

where the fans kick in like 10 plus seconds later, if at all. I suspect since seen quite a few machine like this now, that 100degree is the maximum temperature reading, since all machine in different environments and generations all were running at 800mhz while amazing being at 100degree.
I assuming logically that, they would been slightly different core speeds just off 800mhz.
Which leads me to believe that they are all in excess of 100 degrees C when the chip reach the lower threshold of slowdown, which is 800mhz.

Improve the program with the ability to also log fans speeds, Dells fans don't even kick in until 10second plus later on the precision 7750 laptops.

Provider a certification program for all stand predefined thermal configuration, like Adaptive, Cool, Ultra Performance, Quite, because bios updates and in general the systems are all over heating.

Also suggest adding fan speed monitoring and graphing against max fan speed, to ensure things are working correctly.

One could provide automated testing system, then check fan behavior and expected chip temperature remains under the chips TCase for standard systems and then system actually don't exceed the limits. Unless explicitly choosing to overclock there systems.
That or the manufactures tweaking the settings that are being read from motherboards for that safety feature. 10gen chips are not cutting power after prolong periods of running in excess of 100degree.

There also looks to be flaws, that connecting power adapters, causes chips thermal limit to be immediately triggered. Which means, potentially power supply chips are tool close to that of the cpu or there is non thermal isolation between the cooling, which means the adc adapter increase the standard base no operating stand still temperature of the cpu.

Basically then they have to introduce a thermal conduction switch, if they want to use a common rail cooling, that common rail is only used when that chip exceeds the common rail base temperature, otherwise, everything in steady state will obtain the same temperature.


This way submit some decent logs to dell, showing them how badly there chips are being powered 25-30watts only giving 400mhz  increase from 3.4ghz-3.8ghz, but hit 100degree instantly when power connected and fans don't come on.

bring back the old themal limit warning and **bleep** down that can be set at 75degree. else stuff going to burn out if continues to run at 100degree for prolong periods like it what is happening.
that and individual fan speed monitoring as well. IF exceeds these hard limits there is something really wrong.

See attached plugging in the power, causes and then basically of no fan comes on at all if it does like 10 plus seconds later after being at 100degree.

The industry has been a mess with this problem for the past 10 years and has yet to pull up its socks. 

[AlHill]

Just to be clear, undervolting has been disabled due to security concerns,  and XTU only supports X and K processors.

Just saying...

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[Windows 11 is the new Vista]

[WesleyO]

Well, you tell me that the tool and other monitoring tools, can't read the chip temperature.
The thing I am using the tool for is to confirm that intel safety feature Thermal Throttle flag is coming on, 
as the chip was running at 800mhz and 100degree, which was intel feature they implemented in 2010.
I have seen this problem on different generations and chips.
The only reason I use that tool is for monitoring of the Thermal Throttle flag, which confirmed that Thermal Throttle was on,

which confirmed that intel was overriding the chip to run at 800mhz.
Dell has nice laptop waiting to be debug by them, as have a machine stuck in that mode when the power is connected. and fans don't come on.
Reflashing bios temporary fix's the problem, before it comes back again. So we flash back to 1.7 which is more stable ish.

I have attached some files and screen shots for you.

Bios 1.8 seem to be well screwed up, as cause many things to go wrong. fans also stop working in all entirety.
The Intel XTU logs have been run on a system running 1.7 bios as 1.8 is not stable at all, many things going wack.
Also still overheating and exceeding the design chip temperature or TDPMax if I recall, hence Thermal Throttle flag confirming
intel safety feature is kicking in and saving the chip from melt down potentially.

Hopefully they can improve there tools, such that this tool is one stop tool for compliance and that there is no over heating or intel safety feature kicking in.
That also add fan monitoring to the tool, so produce conserve logs and proof that fans don't kickin.
The Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool Overview, Download, and...

Would you like to recommend any other tool to read the thermal throttling safety flag of intel's implemented in there processors.

[AlHill]

"Well, you tell me that the tool and other monitoring tools, can't read the chip temperature."

I did not say that.

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[Windows 11 is the new Vista]

[DeividA_Intel]

Hello WesleyO, 

Thank you for the information provided 

I will proceed to check the situation internally and post back soon with more details. 

Best regards, 

Deivid A.  

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[DeividA_Intel]

Hello WesleyO, 

I would like to let you know that the Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility (Intel® XTU) is not intended for this processor, then is not intended for monitoring purposes either. If you are looking for a similar tool, it is better to check with the laptop's manufacturer for a validated tool.

Bear in mind that you have a laptop and the manufacturer could customize its settings therefore there may be troubleshooting that we won't be able to perform. However, in order to help you, try the following:

1. Check at the task manager which apps are consuming more CPU usage.

2. Chack for a fan mode at the BIOS.

3. Change the power plan.

4. Try a clean installation of the operating system.

If the previous steps did not work, please check with the laptop manu=acturer for further recommendations.

Best regards, 

Deivid A.  

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[WesleyO]

Hi,

Thanx for the feedback.

Sadly this happens on mutiple machines, and only flashing the bois causes the fans to come right again.
Since happen on two machines already, I suspect hardware firm ware problem.

1. Check at the task manager which apps are consuming more CPU usage.
- How this as Mechatronics Engineer and Computer Science Degree , the pc, was clocked back to 800mhz while sitting at 100degree, what do not understand about this. pc like 486 from the 90's. Windows also list the CPU current operating speed, that reads 800mhz, when problem is fixed very dynamic.

2. Check for a fan mode at the BIOS.

- There are not fan mode but power modes with fan modes as preset defaults.

3. Change the power plan. - doesn't work suspect, only flashing the bios worked.

4. Try a clean installation of the operating system.

- Well this hardware not working properly and a hardware flash of the bios causing things to start working again,
So unless Bios save bug that corrupts so variables or something like that, there are issues.

Different power management schemas in the laptop have been test, they don't even work properly.
As for the testing tools they provide in bios for diagnostics, they don't put the CPU under stress and well

basically 90 degree on those readings already.

Basically at the end of the day, all these machines overheating in the computer industry are going to catch alight and burn a few houses down eventually. If laptop comes on in a bad or wakes our sleep mode with screen closes and is in a bad or somthing, well there she goes house and all vehicle and all what eva.
Its amazing how over the last 10 years the seriousness of this issues has gotten the right attention.
All someone has to do is sit with it on there lap instead a desk and all ventilation is block it will over heat,

In the bigger Picture Dell has basically escalated this, since been happening on two different machines.
I seen this happening on how many different PCs and desktops, where under sized heat sinks and the machine never switch off.

Guess more of what just happen in Australia Battery plant going to be happening in pc at this rate.

Kind Regards,

Wesley Oliver

[DeividA_Intel]

Hello WesleyO, 

Thanks for the information provided, however, I recommend you to check with the laptop manufacture since (as you mentioned) flashing the BIOS seems to bring back the fans.

The manufacturer can add/delete/restrict features to their machines that can place the CPU under a lot of pressure and may cause overheating, also they are responsible to provide the cooling solution and good airflow for the laptop.

In this case, the laptop manufacturer should make the correction on their machine and if finds that the issue is related to the Intel CPU, they will get in contact with us directly to discuss a possible fix.

Regards,  

Deivid A. 

Intel Customer Support Technician