The RMA process needs to change in light of the recent revelations.

[Eisbar]

As per the title.

I just attempted to start the RMA process myself for an unstable, badly behaving 13900K purchased last year in 2023 and has been sitting in its box after the purchase of a replacement motherboard when I was under the belief the original motherboard must have been the culprit. 

The admittance that there was a known issue in 2023 that was not communicated to users would have been good to have had there. 

In that time I ended up buying the 14900KS as I figured for my use case the more performance the better and I'd find a use for the 13900K when this build was finished, it was past the return date with the retailer and to my knowledge it was fine. Well, my 14900KS was such a speed demon as advertised I figured why not buy yet another motherboard, go for broke, really get the top of the pop for this processor.  Then DX12 errors began to occur and have steadily grown worse.

So I've got two useless Intel processors, with multiple motherboards, and DDR5 that won't be very useful for AMD given how DDR5 works on their current platform. 

The gentleman who contacted me wants a laundry list of things to submit before an RMA is approved. One of the things he wants are diagnostic reports from a processor that's not in a system, the other thing he wants is the information from the IHS on the processor that IS in the system. I have a complex water-cooling loop and I use PTM in between my IHS and my CPU block. I apologized to him for the delay as I was waiting on more PTM to arrive.

The ticket was closed. Thanks Intel, for your patience and understanding. 

PTM can't be reused, you're making me rip apart my bucket-list liquid cooled PC, reassemble it, tear it apart again, then possibly reassemble it. To juggle the processors to get the information you want, I find that hilarious again, given the revelations that have come to light. How about I give you the receipts, the processors in their boxes and we cut the nonsense.  

I'm disabled as hell. I lost full use of my hands two years ago and the amount of nonsense that this juggling is going to take is cruel, I use the word cruel with gravity because as I said, this is my bucket-list PC. 

Which leads me into your RMA, what is your plan? You have to hope that the microcode update coming mid-August works. If it doesn't? Then what?. Bucket-list PC. do you think I want to spend the remainder of my time on this rock having smoke blown up my backside by a company I used to support? 

I do not have a lot longer on this planet. I have been a PC enthusiast since the early 80's. When time comes for me to enter palliative care my workstation was to be donated to the local public library for their tech enthusiast club. How awesome would that look now "Hey, this may screw up every couple a months and you will need to fight Intel, you're welcome"

Refunding the CPUs won't make me whole, motherboards with your chipsets are involved, water blocks for the LGA1700 socket, etc.  Replacing the CPUs is a gamble at best given how Intel has conducted itself. You're asking for trust you don't rightly deserve from users. Somehow, with this rock and a hard place option you've unfairly given to people the RMA process is a discriminating, obnoxious clown show, from a subjective and relative standpoint. Given that you've got users at your mercy.

I apologize for the rant but you need to humble up as a company. 

I'll tell you what, I'll trade you 48 total cores with these two top-of-the-line-trust-us(TM) CPUs and you go on ahead and give me back 44 cores in the form of a Xeon 3575x, I'll ship Pat all the useless LGA1700 hardware, he can build a high end PC and wear the box as a hat. 

I'm only partially kidding. 

They don't even have a means of seeking a disability accommodation for assistance through their RMA process, that pledge to support your customers should include all your customers. 

[Mike_Intel]

Hello Eisbar,

Thank you for posting in Intel community Forum.

We understand your frustrations and experience about the Warranty procedure. I also checked your Warranty request ticket so that we can prioritize request moving forward. Please continue to communicate with your Local Warranty team to proceed with the RMA

As for the update with the issue, let me share this:

Intel has determined that elevated operating voltage is a cause of the majority of instability issues in some 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors. Analysis of returned processors with instability symptoms confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

 Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. Intel is continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Following full validation, Intel is targeting mid-August for patch release to partners.

Customers experiencing instability issues on 13th and 14th Generation desktop processors should contact Intel Customer Support for support.

If you have questions, please let us know. Thank you.

Best regards,

Michael L.

Intel Customer Support Technician

[Eisbar]

"We understand your frustrations and experience about the Warranty procedure"

With all due respect Mike, The warranty on these processors will outlast me. I made a choice concerning how I planned to approach this journey in my life and sought to find an approach that would be of lasting benefit to others as a way of finding a positive light in a looming darkness. I sincerely doubt you can understand and that's alright, I hope you never have to.

"Moving forward"

All forward movement from Intel at this point has been of detriment to the consumer and what's worse yet is that it takes public outcry to even spur that. I am human, pattern recognition is wired into my brain. If I seem adversarial it's because of the actions, inactions, admissions, and omissions of your company. I understand that these decisions are not in the wheelhouse of anyone involved here but please, as you claim to be understanding, know that Intel was the one who chose the song we dance to.

"Intel has determined"

Many things, apparently. Was the problem not your board partners? Baseline profiles were pushed to address that, then Intel power profiles, then 0x125 microcode was pushed which has significantly changed the behaviour of these processors reducing their performance even further. My experience with 0x125 microcode in the Asus 1402 BIOS has been the same as Buildzoids, my 14900KS is no longer a 14900KS and despite having a large amount of thermal and power delivery headroom it will won't boost in an appreciable way. It went from aggressive to anaemic and despite that crippling of this processor, much like Buildzoids findings, it is still killing itself with excessive voltage events.

So despite whatever Intel may or may not have determined all Intel has done has point fingers at other companies to their detriment, subjected users to needless loss, downtime, and frustration. Then slowly cripple a product bought in good faith based on the advertised characteristics it no longer has.

"If you have questions"

Yes, who do I have to speak with at Intel to say I don't wish to spend the short remainder of my life dealing with RPLs problems because there is no do-overs, do you understand that? Every time your company makes a claim of a fix and time passes is time I do not get back, that is time that is of extreme value to me now. I regret I never looked at time this way before and taking the days in my life for granted is on me. The ethics of how Intel has handled things that have come to light has been one problem but this is one of morality.

This is my bucket list item, I cannot take further chances in good faith with Intels promises and claims that lead nowhere. I do not have the funds to do this over, refunding my processors will not make me whole as I have spent larger amounts on the LGA1700 platform with Intels Z790 chipset and unless Intel is willing to reimburse everything involved there as well so I can move to a competitors platform then it's time to look at other options in the Intel product line, as I have stated. 

A lifetime of brand enthusiasm and loyalty, starting this ride with Pat Gelsinger and my i486 DX2 and it ending with Pal Gelsinger and this three-ring circus. 

---

[Vaveen]

Youre frustrations we are 1000s and 1000s with the same problem ....Wake the **bleep** up

[Jayboy]

I waited and saved for 9 fking years and the right time to build my PC only to get a faulty CPU. WTF are you at over there at INTEL. Stop with the damage control BS. I've been a support agent for years in the past and this disgusting behaviour is the norm for any call centres in general. The issue starts with "team leaders" or "tech gurus", and I use those terms very reluctantly, being given scripts by their bosses on how to navigate people away from a refund. It's crazy and has to stop.

INTEL, what is your company worth. Surely you have planned for an issue such as this? Surely you didn't think for a second that there might one day be a bad batch and your company will have to cough up refunds for. Surely.

Right now I'm on the penultimate BIOS update and I simply don't want to update to the latest as I've read on here and the web that there is a 20% loss in performance!! Why are you (INTEL) trying to dodge bullets. Just admit it and get on with replacements! 

I'm sure your company's bottom line wont be affected too much, right?

PS I should have known better and stuck with AMD!

[ShaunEsau]

I feel you I have been trying to RMA my i7-13700k since 2024/07/24 They have been running me around in circles here is their most recent response they just do NOT WANT TO RMA!!
EDIT to ad I already told them I have tried other CPU and everything works fine. It IS THE CPU Also tried all their troubleshooting tips 2 they just keep trying to give me more of the same **bleep** running me in circles.

Their most recent response below I removed their name

I apologize for the delay in my response. To help you further with more troubleshooting steps, kindly set the BIOS to the Intel Default Settings, and you may check the recommended BIOS settings by visiting the link below for manual configuration to maximize the stability of your system.

Link: June 2024 Guidance regarding Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen K/KF/KS instability reports - Intel Community.

We recommend contacting the motherboard manufacturer for further assistance as the said parameters are in general terms so the terminologies will vary depending on the manufacturer.

I will make a follow-up on the 12th of August to see if the resolution I provided helps to fix the problem.

If in any case, I don't receive any response from you, I will make a follow-up on my proposed date. Please let me know if you wish to adjust my follow-up so I can adjust accordingly. If you have further clarifications, kindly let us know if you are unable to perform the procedure.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/June-2024-Guidance-regarding-Intel-Core-13th-and-14th-Gen-K-KF/td-p/1607807

that is the website it links to

[Eisbar]

Odd, why are they pushing back against your RMA?

What did you offer for diagnostics, if any? I didn't do the Intel diagnostics because they know it will pass but both my CPUs are 8+16 and I think Intel knows that all 8+16 dies are defective and doesn't push back on those as much, don't know. Hard to trust them.

How is your processor defective, IE: What have you shown them?

[ShaunEsau]

There is nothing to give them it passes everything fine but still a random complete freeze needing hot boot and crashing games crashing the system.It is not giving me an error to give them They told me to do tests I just told them they came back fine.

[Eisbar]

I know it's frustrating but I don't think they're giving you the run around on purpose.

There's no way Intel could have enough staff to deal with this. I think the staff they have that are trained to work in customer service capacity are probably at the limit of their individual capacity to handle the flood. You can't just wrangle people off the street for this role because there is some level of technical knowledge required and yeah, the wheels on the bus can fall off.

Just remember the people you're talking to aren't the dorks who created this issue. Nobody working in customer service had any say.

If you're still having trouble let me know and I'll run you through some tests you can provide to them. Intels diagnostic tool is not capable as these issues need specific things to happen to get the problem to show itself.  Most if not all tests that load up the CPU and give it a workload where it's spreading out on multiple cores can hide a defective core.

[PaulRuby]

This is how intel operates. I know. I worked there for 30 years. During the Pentium FDIV, I volunteered on the phone lines for folks calling to receive a replacement. Grove was very arrogant about the whole thing. The script I was given was a full page of arguments to dissuade users from getting a replacement. These all revolved around it being no big deal and you'll never actually hit the problem. On my very first call, about 20 seconds in, the customer was getting angry with me. I tore up the script and for him and every other caller that day my response was "Where can I send your replacement CPU?" This is how intel could make this right. Don't hold your breath. 

Now I find myself on the other end of the phone. I paid full price for an I9-1400K and it has been crashing once a week since the day I built this machine. Now I know exactly why and I'm in the same boat as every other *formerly* loyal customer that spent real money on a broken CPU. The only good news is that I've stabilized my machine following random youtubers explaining how to clamp the P-core ratio to 57 (to max out at 5.7GHz). Why wasn't any of this info available from Intel during the YEARS this was known??? I know exactly why because I was there for 30 years. This is intel. My CPU is not able to do what I paid for and they are far too arrogant to deal with it properly. Prove me wrong, intel. Please.

[Vaveen]

Intel is doing damage controll rofl i go amd after 20+ years **bleep** intell now

[Jayboy]

Yeah INTEL prove him wrong. I waited and saved for 9 fking years and the right time to build my PC only to get a faulty CPU. WTF are you at over there at INTEL. I've been a support agent for years in the past and this disgusting behaviour is the norm for any call centres in general. The issue starts with "team leaders" or "tech gurus", and I use those terms very reluctantly, being given scripts by their bosses on how to navigate people away from a refund. It's crazy and has to stop. INTEL, what is your company worth. Surely you have planned for an issue such as this? Surely you didn't think for a second that there might one day be a bad batch and your company will have to cough up refunds. Surely.

Right now I'm on the penultimate BIOS update and I simply don't want to update to the latest as I've read on here and the web that there is a 20% loss in performance!! Why are you (INTEL) trying to dodge bullets. Just admit it and get on with replacements! 

I'm sure you bottom line wont be affected too much, right?

PS I should have known better and stuck with AMD!

[Chris72Lynch]

 Why are they fighting this? I keep reading this nightmare scenario everywhere online.  Before they admitted there was a problem , I also wasted hours troubleshooting my GPU, Motherboard, etc. I spent too much money replacing RAM and Mobos, for them to send me some utility to run on my PC. Of course, nothing the tests for the RAM were all fine, but, bought more anyways, just in case.

I should send them an invoice, I've wasted so much time. I'm not even joking. It was supposedly the video card, then motherboard manufacturers causing the problems...from what I had heard and read. It's very disappointing.

  Software just crashes, if it's a game, it claims i'm out of video memory(4090), or the games/apps just close.  The processor would instantly thermal throttle the first day I built the box, even practically idle. I purchased new coolers, and turned down the power draw.
I've done bios updates, undervolted,etc , months ago. It doesnt stop the random issues with the CPU.

I submitted my RMA request 3 days ago, I hope to hear back from them. I just need to know how to ship the  CPU back. the 13900K was fairly expensive, and it's not functioning as intended. They are going to have to replace my CPU.

 What exactly are they telling people to do? I've already defaulted my BIOS, i no longer even think about OC. The wattage  has been lowered according to the Intel doc that was released months and months ago.  The MSI MB I'm using now has no behavioral differences from the former ASUS, I'm not buying another lga 1700 MB to troubleshoot anything.

Only positive thing is I have extra RAM, from replacing the two sticks, due to thinking my memory was failing- all were good, I have 96 GB for NO real reason. I'll prolly drop 2 sticks, run XMP, when this issue is resolved. I thought about building out another PC, with the old MB, and memory, but, I'm worried about what Intel is going to do about this fiasco. I don't think they can sweep it under the rug, but, it's entirely possible .Lots of horror stories, even with the 2 year warranty  extension. I have no idea if these 2 CPUs , the 13th and 14th, are going to be fixed going forward.

Like everyone else here, I bought the processors  because I've had good luck with Intel, the last few CPU generations. If they're going to force me to run a utility to troubleshoot further, and wait for the random crash, they need to understand that this is not acceptable. It's like GM selling a truck with square wheels, and them asking you to plug in a car computer reader to troubleshoot, because it's not functioning properly, due to manufacturing faults.

Of course, I will do it , if required. But, I don't care what they want to test, that's a waste of time. I just need them to give me the requirements needed to ship this CPU to them, so they can ship it's replacement. That's all Intel should be doing with their affected customers. The factory broke it, not us.

Intel if you value money, then do the right thing and value the customer. I think extending the warranty 2 years, shows you do value customers, any maybe this resistance to the RMA process show syou do like money, maybe a bit more. A one time fee of $600 for a CPU that is defective, then being asked to troubleshoot even more... it looks bad, in general. We purchased these chips, because we wanted an Intel CPU, not your competitors.

[Chris72Lynch]

Well, I was contacted by a Customer Support person fairly quickly.

I'm going to be contacted either today or Monday, by a second team, so I can just mail my cpu back.

So, I'd just like to say , so far it seems to be fairly painless. Now, I say that, having not completed my RMA , as of yet. But, they were quick to answer my support ticket. I didn't realize they had done so, for about 2 days, so any delay was me.

I'll update when it's all completed.

But, so far, it's been fairly quick, considering what is going on. I hope to have the CPU mailed to them , as soon as the other department contacts me. I'll update, just in case others are worried about response times, etc.

[Chris72Lynch]

My RMA replacement is arriving today.
Took about a week after sending my 13th gen.

Overall, it was painless, so most people should have a smooth experience.
Thanks

[Jayboy]

INTEL prove me wrong.

I waited and saved for 9 fking years and the right time to build my PC only to get a faulty CPU. WTF are you at over there at INTEL. I've been a support agent for years in the past and this disgusting behaviour is the norm for any call centres in general. The issue starts with "team leaders" or "tech gurus", and I use those terms very reluctantly, being given scripts by their bosses on how to navigate people away from a refund. It's crazy and has to stop. INTEL, what is your company worth. Surely you have planned for an issue such as this? Surely you didn't think for a second that there might one day be a bad batch and your company will have to cough up refunds. Surely.

Right now I'm on the penultimate BIOS update and I simply don't want to update to the latest as I've read on here and the web that there is a 20% loss in performance!! Why are you (INTEL) trying to dodge bullets. Just admit it and get on with replacements! 

I'm sure you bottom line wont be affected too much, right?

PS I should have known better and stuck with AMD!

[Stevo88]

Take them to the small. Claims court and deal no more woth them. Don't see why you should lose.

I am taking them to the small claims