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Reuse programming file for multiple MAX 10 devices

dabo
Novice
1,001 Views

Hello,

We are looking for clarification when it is necessary to rebuild the project in Quartus when using different MAX 10 devices. As with many others we are having problems acquiring the MAX 10 device our board was designed for (10M04SCU169A7G) and now when looking for alternatives we want to cover as many options as possible while keeping the different Quartus builds of our application to a minimum.

If we build a project in Quartus targeting operating temperature Automotive will the programming file work as intended on both an Industrial and Automotive device? Or could there be timing related issues on the Industrial device? I see the generated .pof-file is very different between different operating temperatures even thougth the application is the same.

More specifically would for example the following work?

Build a Quartus project targeting 10M04SCU169A7G and use the programming file on the following devices:

  • 10M04SCU169I7G
  • 10M04SCU169A7G
  • 10M04SAU169I7G
  • 10M04SAU169A7G

Build a Quartus project targeting 10M08SCU169A7G and use the programming file on the following devices:

  • 10M08SCU169I7G
  • 10M08SCU169A7G
  • 10M08SAU169I7G
  • 10M08SAU169A7G

Or do we need to rebuild the Quartus project for each target device?

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8 Replies
ak6dn
Valued Contributor III
985 Views

The base die is the same, for example, for a 10M08S part, so you can use the same programming file for any speed/temp combo.

The temperature grade and speed grade are functions of how Intel tests the device and the process yields they get, combined with customer demand.

So you don't in general need to rebuild the design if you substitute a different speed/temp grade.

That being said, it also depends on how you use the part.


Are you running at maximum clock frequency?

At your clock frequency does your design timing report show close to zero margin on some logic paths?

Are you using the full operating temperature range, specifically at the high end where timing performance degrades?

 

So the fact that you can reprogram any speed/temp grade of a particular die with the same image file needs to be qualified.

How you use the part in your application also matters.

If you are moving to a faster part, or wider temperature range part, likely it will work no question.

If you are moving to a slower part, or narrower temperature range part, it depends on how you use the part in your circuit.

 

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dabo
Novice
962 Views

Thank you for the reply. We intend to always use speed grade 7.

 


Are you running at maximum clock frequency?

Our design is running only at 20MHz outputted from the built-in PLL. 

 


At your clock frequency does your design timing report show close to zero margin on some logic paths?

The timing report says everything is ok at 125C for the Automotive range, does that not also imply that running the same programming file on an Industrial ranged device up to 100C will also be ok? We are aware that there could be problems running an Industrial device above 100C no matter if the programming file is built for Industrial or Automotive range.

 


Are you using the full operating temperature range, specifically at the high end where timing performance degrades?

We have ran temperature tests for an extreme case and determined that an Industrial device at 100C should suffice. But the temperature margin was not as big as we would have liked so to have some extra margin we elected to go with the Automotive version. Since we have a lot of trouble acquring Automotive ranged devices we decided Industrial will have to do now too.

As long as speed grade and temperature grade are the same then it is completely safe to reuse a programming file for the devices I listed in the previous post? For example, program a 10M04SCU169A7G programming file to a 10M04SAU169A7G device or a 10M08SCU169I7G programming file to a 10M08SAU169I7G device?

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Fakhrul
Employee
930 Views

Hi dabo,


Please take note the I7 OPN devices are only validated and tested up to 100°C , thus using an I7 device will not improve the temperature support, it will still run hot. Also, the customer has to take their own risk of the functionality, performance, and reliability of the devices if they planned to run up to 125C while using I7. I got a case whereby a customer said the device runs hot when they're using I7 OPN up to 125°C.


Additionally, you may check the following KDB which applicable to your concerns:

Are programming and configuration files compatible across speed grades?

Are there any differences in the DC and switching characteristics of industrial temperature devices compared to commercial temperature devices?


Regards,

Fakhrul


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dabo
Novice
918 Views

Thank you Fakhrul.

 

Can you please also answer my question from my previous post:

 

Is it completely safe to program a 10M04SCU169A7G programming file to a 10M04SAU169A7G device? Or a 10M08SCU169I7G programming file to a 10M08SAU169I7G device?

 

 

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Fakhrul
Employee
878 Views

Hi dabo,


Sorry for the late response. I overlooked your reply. Well, it is not practical to use the same configuration/programming file to program across different types of single-supply SC/SA. It's a different device id and the program may not work. The SA has the ADC meanwhile the SC doesn't, so the pinout also is different.



Hope this can clarify your concerns.


Regards,

Fakhrul



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Fakhrul
Employee
859 Views

Hi dabo,


I wish to follow up with you on this case. Do you still have further inquiries on this issue? Please feel free to let me know if there is any concern so that we could further assist you.


Otherwise, this thread will be idling and marked as inactive, thus it will be transitioned to community support because there is no update received from you in a while.


Regards,

Fakhrul


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dabo
Novice
851 Views

Hello Fakhrul,

 

My questions have been answered thank you.

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Fakhrul
Employee
842 Views

I’m glad that your question has been addressed, I now transition this thread to community support. This thread will be transitioned to community support. If you have a new question, feel free to open a new thread to get support from Intel experts. Otherwise, the community users will continue to help you on this thread. Thank you.



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