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Community Manager
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TRIM support for Mac OS X?

When are you planing TRIM support for Mac OS X?

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I think you need to address the question to Apple. My understanding (hope) is that Toolbox will enable a manual "Trim" process on Mac drives.

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The toolbox doesn't work with the MAC and unfortunately Intel has not produced any tool for the MAC users. I would hope that they would, but given the windows first mindset, us mac users seem to be low on the totem pole. I did read somewhere that the Intel folks supporting Linux are working on something. Also, Apple would have to implement "TRIM" in their OS and I haven't seen any indications of this through the web.

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My X25 M 80 G2 is a non partitioned disk in bay 2 with 10.6.2 on it.

I have Vista Bootcamp Partition on the disk in bay 1.

I fear you will tell me that I can't install Toolbox in Vista and apply it to the X25 M, because Toolbox won't work on HFS file system.

Looks like the only option at the moment is the Digloyd tool:

http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SSD-Reconditioning.html

which I have used successfully once on a non Intel SSD.

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Hi mikebore,

You got it. The Toolbox will not work on a HFS+ filesystem, even if you installed Toolbox on your Bootcamp drive. Now, if you brave, maybe you can test it and see what happens and let us know, but first backup your SSD.

Hopefully, Apple has "trim" functionality in the work, but I would not hold my breath. It doesn't make sense to have an OS that doesn't recognize the command, but yet sell SSDs which rely on using this command in order to keep up the performance. The next thing to hope for is that Intel will produce the toolbox for the MAC, which is highly unlikely; maybe they can produce a utility script for us mac users to run.

In order to get back near performance of your SSD, all you have to do is do a secure-erase. See this link:http://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase

I use Linux(Ubuntu) to secure erase my SSDs. It works in 2 minutes. Then, I use SuperDuper to restore from my HD 7200 Western Digital, which I use to backup my SSD. The other option is to use HDerase which i'm not familiar with.

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Thanks!

Just puzzling why Diglloyd's recommendation isn't just a zero erase, as you suggest. He seems to think there is more to it.

Any comment on his article?

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I read his article. Using "diskutility" by itself will not work because it uses zeros. A secure erase uses "1s" which means that it baslically writes to the whole disk. He is using DiskTester which writes the "1s", then he uses diskutility to erase, then restore. I not williing to test to see if it works, but I do know using hdparm to secure erase the disk does the job. It is baslically 1 command vs 3 commands(i.e. diskutility to erase, then write 1s to fill up drive, then diskutility to erase again)

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The issue here is not "How can I deal with there being no TRIM tool for OS X, or OS-level support of an automated variety?" It's not "What clunky work-arounds can I employ since Intel hasn't made available a way to implement the command in OS X?"

The issue here is "When is Intel going to support TRIM in OS X?"

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I should mention that a number of Mac users at my university including myself are holding off purchasing Intel SSDs until an OS X Trim utility or other form of support is made available.

We would love to buy these products once their full level of functionality is supported.

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r_smith,

Your blame is partially mis-blamed. Yes. Intel would need to support the HFS filesystem, but it is Apple that must implement the "trim" command in their driver as Microsoft has done. The SSD will not TRIM unless the OS passes the command or unless Intel makes a utility to TRIM the SSD as they have done XP and VISTA which do not support TRIM at the OS level. So the question is when is Apple going to support TRIM in OSX. The Intel SSD might be already be able to handle the HFS filesystem, but I doubt it. NO SSD vendor has guranteed OSX trim capability that i'm aware of.

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dbm wrote:

 

....unless Intel makes a utility to TRIM the SSD as they have done XP and VISTA which do not support TRIM at the OS level.

OS-level support is ideal, but not the acceptable minimum. The utility would definitely be an acceptable minimal support solution.

dbm wrote:

 

So the question is when is Apple going to support TRIM in OSX.

 

After Intel provides a utility, certainly. Apple is not the device manufacturer. It seems to me that the primary responsibility rests with the manufacturer of a product to support that product in popular operating systems. Of course, it's also Apple's responsibility to cooperate with device makers such as Intel.

NO SSD vendor has guranteed OSX trim capability that i'm aware of.

TRIM functionality is critical for desktop SSD use in my opinion. If it's offered in Windows, it should be offered in OS X, at least in the form of a utility. I believe it is Intel's best interest, as well as the computing community, to release an OS X utility, at least until it can work with Apple to get OS-level support.

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dbm wrote:

I read his article. Using "diskutility" by itself will not work because it uses zeros. A secure erase uses "1s" which means that it baslically writes to the whole disk. He is using DiskTester which writes the "1s", then he uses diskutility to erase, then restore. I not williing to test to see if it works, but I do know using hdparm to secure erase the disk does the job. It is baslically 1 command vs 3 commands(i.e. diskutility to erase, then write 1s to fill up drive, then diskutility to erase again)

Thanks, sorry for delay in replying!

So the diglloyd/Disktester method is sound but less convenient than hdparm?

I have used the Disktester successfully, and while it may be less convenient, I am on more familiar territory, so will probably stick with it for now.

[url=http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?&t=841182]HERE [/url]is another method which sounds close yours.

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Actually I think I have just realised a better way, for me.

1. Clone mac boot to external.

2. Boot from my mac utilities drive

3. Format mac boot drive as NTFS (can do as I have NTFS for Mac installed, but FAT 32 would have worked)

4. Boot to Vista Bootcamp partition

5. Run Toolbox

6. Boot to Mac Utilities drive.

7. Format mac boot drive back to GUID/HFS+

8. Clone back from external

I have just done it and my random write performance (Quickbench) which had dropped to about 40% of new is recovered.

Actually what I just did also included a Disktester recondition as well, but just after doing it I realised I could have done the above so did that as well. But next time I will skip Disktester obviously.

I could probably have gone straight from step 1 to step 3 as I have MacDrive in Vista so it sees the mac drives.

Any comment? snags I have missed?

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That's a lot of steps and it requires the purchase and installation of a second operating system. It's not really support for OS X, but rather a way to bypass OS X and use Windows to run TRIM. It also requires a third-party hack (NTFS for OS X).

I think this series of steps underscores the great importance of Intel releasing even a simple command-line OS X utility for TRIM.

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I agree. Macs aren't ready for SSD and if I could turn the clock back I wouldn't have jumped on the SSD bandwagon until some proper support from either Apple or Intel is available.

That said the interim workarounds aren't quite as bad as they appear when you write them down step by step. NTFS for Mac is not essential. I formatted to NTFS because I could. I could have formatted to FAT and it Windows would have seen it. The Disktester option doesn't require a second OS and can be done all within OSX.

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You are entirely wrong if you think that intel has any obligation to do the job for apple. TRIM is a standardized ATA command and as such, it is the OS that needs to support it. Fact of the matter is, OSX is not correctly implementing ATA right now, until they (Apple) support TRIM.

Furthermore, there are two main reasons why the toolbox exists in the first place:

1. Allow SSDs to be TRIMmed under older OS' that are no longer actively developed and supported (such as windows XP)

2. Allow SSDs to be TRIMmed when using the (soon obsolete) Intel Matrix Storage Manager, because its driver blocks the TRIM command.

None of the above applies to OSX. Its up to apple to pick up the ball and play it, not the device manufacturers. You can only hope for some goodwill from intel, but you cant expect it.

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...there are two main reasons why the toolbox exists in the first place:

1. Allow SSDs to be TRIMmed under older OS' that are no longer actively developed and supported (such as windows XP

In other words, enabling an OS that's "not correctly implementing ATA" to support TRIM?

OSX is not correctly implementing ATA right now, until they (Apple) support TRIM.

I don't buy this line of reasoning, anyway. Normally, it's the manufacturer of a device that provides a driver/software so the device can function in popular operating systems.

...wrong if you think that intel has any obligation to do the job for apple.

 

None of the above applies to OSX. Its up to apple to pick up the ball and play it, not the device manufacturers. You can only hope for some goodwill from intel, but you cant expect it.

So, Microsoft was responsible for creating the Toolbox and the Intel Storage Matrix Driver? Fascinating.

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legege wrote:

When are you planing TRIM support for Mac OS X?

forum wrote:

This question is ASSUMED ANSWERED.

It was answered, but not satisfactorily. The only good answer would be a statement from Intel about upcoming TRIM support for OS X.

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What if you would install drivers to allow Windows to read the HFS+ filesystem. Would SSD Toolbox still not run on the drive?

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