I'm told that Windows 7 handles the trim functionality. does that mean that I do not have to run the optimizer to delete the files marked for deletion?
Does the optimizer read a list that windows 7 has compiled to instruct the system which ones to delete?
I'm curious what part does windows 7 play in the trim functionality of the Intel Solid state drive toolbox.
is it "either-or", meaning use windows 7 to handle the trim functionality fully (listing, deleting) or use the SSD toolbox optimizer to handle this feature FULLY.
or is it a combination effort between windows 7 and the SSD toolbox optimizer?
The TRIM function improves compatibility, endurance, and performance by allowing the drive to do garbage collection in the background. This collection eliminates unused blocks of data, such as deleted files.
For TRIM to function, both the SSD and operating system must support TRIM, and be enabled in the operating system. Microsoft Windows 7* has the TRIM command enabled by default, so it is normally running in the background, however, you can also use the Intel® SSD Toolbox optimize function to do a run TRIM "on demand", even though it may not be necessary.
You can find more information about TRIM and the way it works in the following document:
http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-031242.htm Intel® High Performance Solid-State Drives — What are the Advantages of TRIM and How Do I Use It With My SSD?
I appreciate the reply, though I'm still not confident in my complete understanding of parts and counterparts utilized for this function and/or the duties assigned to these components.
Below is an excerpt from the link you provided regarding the TRIM functionality.
So in the first line within my red mark, in the case of using Windows XP or Vista, the OPTIMIZER identifies and communicates these deleted files to the SSD.
What about the REMOVAL of these files? Then the second line within my red mark, it goes on to say that for the TRIM to function both the SSD "AND" the OS must support TRIM and enabled in the OS.
My interpretation of that is XP and Vista don't support TRIM and in that case the SSD OPTIMIZER handles the whole ball of wax.
the identification, the communication and the deletion. So why even involve the OS of W7, 8 , etc in the first place if the SSD OPTIMIZER can do it all?
next issue, again back to the information found on the page from the link you provided,
note the line with the red arrow, wherein the SUPERFETCH feature shall be disabled.
well, below is a snapshot of the SYSTEM TUNER tab of my toolbox regarding the SUPERFETCH.
it notes that the "feature is optimized". My first inclination is to deem that SUPERFETCH is ENABLED. though I'm not
quite sure how to interpret that status.
Now that we determined the importance of TRIM as a function to improve the functionality of the SSD, here are a few relevant items related to your current inquiries:
- The Trim attribute of the ATA protocol's Data Set Management command can be done by the OS, enabling it by default in the file system (as in Windows* 7, 8, 8.1, etc), or it can be done on user demand (as it is done with Intel® SSD Toolbox optimizer). As is mentioned in the document, both methods notify the SSD of deleted files that are safe to be erased, this allows the drive to do garbage collection in the background. This only means that the actual erasing of the blocks is performed by the SSD itself, not by the TRIM command, even though it is clear that these tasks are closely related and are often reffered to as part of the same process.
- Superfetch, ReadyBoost, as well as boot and application launch prefetching are technologies that were designed to improve performance on traditional HDDs. If you are using a SSD, Windows* will normally have these features disabled by default. The status "Feature is optimized" means superfetch and prefetch are disabled.
- Windows* XP and Vista did not have native TRIM support, so the Intel® SSD Toolbox Optimizer was the only option to run TRIM on Intel® SSD's. In current Windows* versions, you have the 2 options, it is worth to mention that some systems have SSD's from other vendors, and some users do not install/use Intel® SSD Toolbox, so, native TRIM support in the OS is and advantage, and actually necessary in some scenarios.
Some of the information mentioned before is related to the OS itself, so I would like to provide you the following link from Microsoft Blogs:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives - Engineering Windows 7 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
I so appreciate your time and patience with me on this matter. Let me add yet another issue.
Each time I run the SSD OPTIMIZER from the toolbox, the files encompassed in the red brackets below pop up on m C drive.
A tremendous amount of space is occupied as depicted in the pic.
Those files pop up only when I run the optimizer. Usually when it completes they go away.
There are times I find these files there for no reason.
If you add up the "gig" a bytes taken by these files, I'm not sure the machine is deleting these files.
It's always that large. and I'm almost certain they are always the same number of bytes.
How can assure myself that my trim functionality is working correctly?
Its hard to believe that 108gig +/- are required ALWAYS for this function.
This is a normal behavior and should not have any effect in your system.
The SSD is normally filled up with Trim files while Optimizer is running. If you are using the Optimizer, it should delete all these Intel_Trim_File_XX files after it finishes.
Trim should work automatically without Optimizer (assuming the system is using Windows 7 or later). So, these files can also be shown while the system is doing the TRIM routine.
"...................Trim should work automatically without Optimizer (assuming the system is using Windows 7 or later). So, these files can also be shown while the system is doing the TRIM routine................"
Jonathan, that statement was a LIGHT BULB moment for me. Wow. I never thought of that scenario. How can I determine how frequent Windows 7 is performing this task? Is the frequency based on a set schedule or could it possibly be executed based on a programmed set mark, which when reached points to the program to trim?
If I may bring the issue of Trim Functionality back up again.
This excerpt below is from an article that was alarming to me."How Intel's SSD Toolbox Optimizer (trim) feature works" posted 2-12-2013.
https://koitsu.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/how-intels-ssd-toolbox-optimizer-trim-feature-works/ How Intel's SSD Toolbox Optimizer (TRIM) feature works | Koitsu's Blog
"........A Windows OS that supports TRIM natively does not require the Optimizer to be run. I cannot stress this point enough. In fact, depending on the behaviour of the TRIM implementation (see above), this could actually cause excessive wear/tear on the NAND flash if done repeatedly. Which leads me to…
A short story
In January I dealt with http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27933607-Buggy-Intel-SSD-520-Series-SSD-Firmware a report from a user stating his Intel 520-series SSD had "crapped out on him", insisting it was caused by "a firmware bug" http://communities.intel.com/thread/33953 reported by some random Internet user (note the username) affecting only 520-series drives that were issued ATA STANDBY or ATA SLEEP commands by the OS, or when the drive was reattached on the SATA bus.
As I began to question his prognosis, he admitted that he was running Windows 7 or 8, did not let his drive go into standby/sleep, and did not excessively remove the drive from the bus. Further pressure revealed that he had http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27934681- scheduled the Intel SSD Optimizer function to run every day at 0300 — and found that his drive "had issues" around that time, repeatedly. Thus, he concluded on his own behalf that he was, somehow, "being bit by this [unsubstantiated] firmware bug".
I was prompt to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27934887-Buggy-Intel-SSD-520-Series-SSD-Firmware lecture him about this; he actually may have killed his own SSD due to his own misunderstanding/negligence of what TRIM is and how it works. I would have be able to determine this if he had provided SMART attributes for the SSD in question, but has since failed to provide them....."
My concern Is related to the utilization of the TRIM FUNCTIONALITY tool found within the Intel Solid-State Drive Toolbox. I previously used the tool on a regular basis in an ongoing effort to keep my system optimized for performance as much as possible.
Though, I began to question whether or not my use of the tool may be unnecessary and possibly harmful to the SSD to the point of shortening it's life expectancy. This, in light of the chance that Windows 7, the OS installed in my BOXX, may be executing the TRIM FUNCTIONALITY itself.
This concern was brought about after reading the article "How Intel's SSD Toolbox Optimizer (trim) feature works" posted 2-12-2013, found on intel's website. ...
I already removed the duplicate replies as you requested.
It is very difficult to determine the reason for the wear of a drive since there are many factors involved. Each drive is rated to a certain amount of written data, and guaranteed to work a determined amount of time under regular workloads. For example, the Minimum Useful Life of the Intel SSD 520 Series is expected to be 5 years with a typical client workload of up to 20 GB of host writes per day. This is specified in page 10 of the http://download.intel.com/newsroom/kits/ssd/pdfs/intel_ssd_520_product_spec_325968.pdf Intel® Solid-State Drive 520 Series Product Specification.
Running the SSD optimizer (manual TRIM) regularly is not recommended nor required. However, having the OS running TRIM by itself should not have a impact in the wear out of the drive, since this is actually meant to increase performance and the useful life of the drive.
In some cases, user applications or background tasks of the OS may do continuous writes to the SSD's, increasing the typical workload of the drive and reducing the expected lifetime.
I so appreciate your time. I've been communicating my concern to BOXX, the manufacturer of my system to no avail regarding the trim functionality. Though I did get some resistance and some pretty nifty anwers.
I can always count on you to know the ins and outs of the SSD. Thank you . If you dont mind I may bug you again in the future for additional inquiries.
by the way, I was reading RANDOM WRITES AND FLUSHES: WHY IS THIS SO HARD and actually got my mind blown. theres some very stange things that go on to make the SSD work. Like something out of sci-fi. ha ah ah
If I may pose one extended question to the previous one.
When the author of the article makes the following statement what exactly would he be looking for in the SMART attributes to afford him the determination of what he is speaking of?"......he actually may have killed his own SSD due to his own misunderstanding/negligence of what TRIM is and how it works. I would have be able to determine this if he had provided SMART attributes for the SSD in question, but has since failed to provide them....."
One more time.
I was just reading further regarding trim on this site and came across some conversation about "msahci".
Should I also check to see if I have the proper drivers for all this? whew!!
Is there anything I can send you to determine if I am set for success?!? Off the record of course.. hah ah ah
Hey there Johathan.
Long time. If I may further pester you regarding my SSD.
below is info from my SSD toolbox.
From what I have read regarding SSD's defrag is no longer necessary.
even my toolbox has a note under system tuner that reads:
when it notes not to run the defrag MANUALLY......is this because the system itself may use defrag itself? Just not initiated manually?
I bring this up because I noticed our IT folks have a maintenance routine that kicks up automatically every wednesday. I also noted that DEFRAG is part of this routine.
whats your take this sir?