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YChen100
Beginner
4,612 Views

question for Intel MU-MIMO setting for AC-8265

Hello all,

it seems my laptop with Intel AC-8265 doesn't support MU-MIMO.

I'm using ASUS-RT88U as gateway, and it proves it works with Samsung S7 for MU-MIMO. but when connecting AC-8265 ( install on my DELL laptop) with Intel PROSet/Wireless WiFi Software version = 20.10.2

  • Driver version = 19.10.10.2 for Windows 7 for 18265, 8265, 3168, 18260, 8260, 17265 and 3165.

During the capture packets, it shows Sounding and MU request send to AC-8265, but still get SU feedback.

please help to check how to enable the MU-MIMO for AC-8265

Thanks

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24 Replies
idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

Thanks for posting in our community.

 

 

Even though the Intel® Dual Band Wireless Adapter-AC 8265 is MU-MIMO compliant, this is not a setting that can be turned off or on from the adapter. The router is the one streaming downlinks in this mode.

 

 

In order to better assist you, we would like to gather some more information:

 

 

- Please download and run the https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25293/Intel-System-Support-Utility-for-Windows- Intel® System Support Utility (while connected to your network) and share the resulting report with us.

 

- What software are you using to track the packages? Please share screenshots or logs of the traffic if possible.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
YChen100
Beginner
487 Views

Hello Intel Corporation

thanks for your support, and the SSU scan results shows below as Intel_SSU.txt

and i use Apple MAC pro to capture the wireless packets, which shows the Intel 8265AC announced it support MU beamformee in their proble_request, but when AP (wireless router) send the MU feedback request in VHT ND announcement packet, Intel 8265AC reply the SU (single user MIMO) in "Action No Ack" packet instead; which lead the MU-MIMO disabled. please check the captured packets at intel8265ac_clean.pcapng (would open by wireshark).

Thansk,

Yu

idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

Thanks for your sharing the requested files.

 

 

We found from the Intel® SSU file that the system is connected to a 802.11n network, which works with SU-MIMO only.

 

 

MU-MIMO was introduced as an updated for 802.11ac. You could try changing the "Preferred Band" on thehttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005585/network-and-i-o/wireless-networki... adapter's advanced settings to 802.11ac. However, this is actually managed by the router. The following article does a great job explaining this and other details about MU-MIMO:

 

 

- https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/what-is-mu-mimo/ What is MU-MIMO?

 

 

NOTE: Links to third party sites are being offered for your convenience and should not be viewed as an endorsement by Intel of the content, products, or services offered there.

 

 

I hope this information will be useful for you. Please let us know if we can assist you with anything else.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

We're just checking this post and would like to know if there's anything else we can help you with.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
YChen100
Beginner
487 Views

Hello Eugenio F,

i'm sure i'm connecting with 11ac, not 11n. could you let me know which part from SSU shows that current connection is in 11n?

if you check with captured files, it also shows the current network is 11ac with MU-MIMO enabled.

thanks to confirm.

Yule

idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

On Intel® SSU, the radio type can be found on the Detailed View. Expand the Networking line and click on your wireless adapter to find the 802.11 protocol used.

 

 

Alternatively, you can also open a CMD and run the following command: netsh wlan show interfaces. This will show the radio type for your wireless connection.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

We haven't heard from you in a while. Please let us know if there's anything else we can help you with.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
YChen100
Beginner
487 Views

HI Eugenio,

Thanks for the reminder, and i still think this is intel AC8265 problem, because the below output of netsh wlan show interfaces shows it is 802.11n but the speed is 866.7Mbps ( which is typical 802.11ac 2x2 80Mhz speed); and do you have any data shows the AC8256 MU-MIMO is working with which kind of WiFi AP/Router?

Thanks,

================================================================================

C:\Windows\system32>netsh wlan show interfaces

There is 1 interface on the system:

Name : Wireless Network Connection 3

Description : Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 8265

GUID : 6f22722c-4257-4f93-a445-33f7995d1a05

Physical address : 34:13:e8:5f:41:37

State : connected

SSID : TelstraBA2727-5G

BSSID : 12:13:31:ba:27:2f

Network type : Infrastructure

Radio type : 802.11n

Authentication : WPA2-Personal

Cipher : CCMP

Connection mode : Profile

Channel : 149

Receive rate (Mbps) : 866.7

Transmit rate (Mbps) : 866.7

Signal : 99%

Profile : TelstraBA2727-5G

Hosted network status : Not started

C:\Windows\system32>

================================================================================

idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

Please bear in mind that even though Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 8265 is MU-MIMO compliant, streaming is managed entirely by the router or access point.

 

 

You're correct, the connection rate seems to match 802.11ac speeds, but the fact that the network is set to 802.11n (where MU-MIMO is no supported) remains.

 

 

It is possible that MU-MIMO is not required in your network configuration, where a single device was communicating with the router when the packets were captured. On a 4x4 antennas router, MU-MIMO can work with up to four devices. It can also go the other way around, where the router is streaming to four or more clients simultaneously, that may force it to SU-MIMO.

 

 

Other than https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/dual-band-wireless-ac-82... product documentation showing the adapter works with MU-MIMO, we don't have other data available regarding this protocol.

 

 

Let us know if there's anything else we can help you with.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
YChen100
Beginner
487 Views

Hello Eugenio,

i could confirm the MU-MIMO is working with AP and other MU-MIMO cell phones as Samsung S7. while Intel 8265 is working on 11ac mode, but only SU-MIMO, not MU-MIMO.

Below is how i can prove my conclusion:

AP will send all MU-MIMO supported client a VHT NDP packets to request client send MU feedback, while the Intel 8265 always send feedback as SU feedback, so AP cannot perform MU-MIMO.

on the contrary, samsung S7 could reply MU feedback to the AP.

it is not true that Intel 8265 is working on 11n mode, because it is tested and captured all packets between Intel 8265 and AP are in 11ac mode with Channel 149; BUT it just working on the SU-MIMO mode as I said above.

attached intel8265_S7_clean.pcapng is the wireless captured packets to show how Intel reply in SU mode.

attachedAP-MU and Intel-SU.png is the screenshot to show how AP request MU Feedback while Intel client reply SU feedback ( we expected the Intel 8265 client rely the MU feedback to make MU-MIMO work)

YChen100
Beginner
487 Views

looks i cannot attach any files but picture, so no captured files attached.

idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello Yule.Chen,

 

 

Thanks for sharing the screenshots.

 

 

Please allow us some time to investigate this. We'll be back with you as soon as possible.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
TMcCl
Beginner
487 Views

Has this been reviewed further? I am seeing the same behavior. 8265 is sending SU-MIMO frame back on VHT NDP Announcement.

idata
Community Manager
487 Views

Hello TJMcClintic,

 

 

Thanks for posting. We're still investigating this matter.

 

 

As soon as we have updates, the thread will be updated.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Eugenio F.
YChen100
Beginner
487 Views

Hi Eugenio,

Do you have any update on MIU MIMO on Intel AC8265 and 9260, we tried with both by using latest version 20.40.0, none of them could reply the MU feedback ;-(

we are waiting for your updates right now.

Thanks,

Yu

JMiel
Beginner
487 Views

Hi Intel,

Any updates on this, just purchased a NETGEAR Nighthawk X4S AC2600 (has MU-MIMO) and expected it to work with my laptop which contains an Intel AC-8265 (along with many other wireless devices).

JJJJJ

ATell1
New Contributor I
487 Views

Do NOT use MU-MIMO on the AC88U or any Broadcom chipset based router as it will actually reduce performance. Even Broadcom clients like the Galaxy S7/S8 drop to a single antenna mode with MU enabled, though it's not a big difference as it's just a phone. Basically Broadcom has a improper half hazard implementation of MU-MIMO.

Only routers based on the Qualcomm QCA9984 chipset actually give a decent performance gain with MU-MIMO like the Netgear R7800, Synology RT2600AC and Asus BRT-AC828.

Having said that, how many MU clients do you actually have? You need two or more MU capable clients for MU-MIMO to actually work. MU means the router will use two (Dual Antenna) MU clients at once or 3 (Single Antenna) clients or 1 (Single Antenna) and 1 (Dual Antenna) client at once. If you only have one MU capable client obviously it can't use MU-MIMO.

JMiel
Beginner
487 Views

Hi,

As you know, the NETGEAR Nighthawk X4S AC2600 is the R7800 (unsure why Netgear gives their products two IDs).

I have six clients on the AC band, all with MU-MIMO chipsets, or so they say. I have more than six clients on the N band.

JJJJJ

ATell1
New Contributor I
487 Views

What are these 6 MU-MIMO clients? I'm hoping you aren't confusing MU-MIMO for MIMO.

SmallNetbuilder did some testing on the R7800 and it gave decent gains.

JMiel
Beginner
190 Views

A few of the clients are laptops with the Intel AC8265 wireless cards.

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