Fortran and knowledge loss

[JohnNichols]

I was looking at this prestressed bridge program from the perspective of history.  We lose a lot of historical knowledge as people age die and move, not necessarily in that order, recent work has focused on lost medieval manuscripts, but even looking at the Fortran program and the documentation shows the problem. 

There is one PDF that I can find online that documents the background and the program quite well.  There are two copies of the book in a University Library, I asked if I could borrow one and was told I could keep it.  I said I would return it as soon as I checked the program code. The PDF is not a brilliant copy. 

Clearly the code is lost so recreating it is a good step for my work. 

The report tells us where the equations were derived, i.e. the codes and how the design was completed, in the early 1970s.  We need this to understand how they were built and designed so we can now recalculate their structural reliability.  The manual states quite nicely that all concrete has to have a certain strength, so this data is very useful as all the people from that time are about gone. 

The loss of the library of Alexandria due to fire neglect and changing fortunes portends some of our future.  

Just a thought on Fortran.  PS this site is the best of the lot for records and knowledge. 

[AlHill]

"PS this site is the best of the lot for records and knowledge. "

Tell that to the folks who need drivers and documentation for Intel products that Intel decided to tear down in November 2019.

It would have cost Intel nothing to keep those files posted.   Rather, users now have to resort to questionable download sites.

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[Maybe Windows 12 will be better]

[Devorah_H_Intel]

Are you talking about Compilers? This is a Fortran forum. 

[andrew_4619]

@JohnNichols wrote:  Clearly the code is lost so recreating ..... 

I thought it was established in a post in your earlier thread by another user that this code is live modernised and "has been developed and is maintained by the Texas Department ofTransportation (TxDOT)." ? Maybe I misunderstood.

[JohnNichols]

Yes it is live and yes it is modernized but you cannot do long term monitoring with the program, you need to be able to do a much more detailed analysis of time changes, the old code will form a useful part of a monitoring program, we have the Fortran code, for old bridges, so now we can answer questions on old design.  Design is one thing it is not accurate, it is an approximation, a bad approximation, long term structural reliability has to be  accurate and it needs to follow the actual structure, built say in 1970, or 1850 or 200BC as we monitor them --  all the real analysis is in Fortran using the Intel Compiler, for the 1970, 1850, 200BC bridges and Indonesian masonry homes. 

The point of the post was to lament as Al Hill, so rightly points out the long term loss of knowledge, as Al Hill points out the loss of drivers etc...  

This forum is part of a INTEL's face to the world, it is good, but it has its flaws. 

Finally, why do you want to be able to get the original stuff for whatever is documented?

There is an ASTM current standard for an engineering device, copied from Baker in a 1914 book, the current standard has incorrect dimensions,  you need the original to build it, once you work out the ASTM is flawed.  

One of the major world structural packages, most likely written in Fortran although I have not asked, uses a set of equations that are published and incorrect for a particular type of analysis, the correct ones have been published and Fortran code for the changes is available.  

[Devorah_H_Intel]

Bios and drivers updates that were EOLed and removed in 2019? How is it a flaw and what does it have to do with Fortran Knowledge loss and Fortran Compiler Forum?

[JohnNichols]

Devorah:

It was a slow Sunday and I was musing. My apologies for starting a mini world war.  

I learnt a long time ago, that just listening to people often gives you insight into how to solve unrelated problems.  For unknown reasons, you have an interesting collection of unique people who post on this forum, actually much brighter and kinder on average than your average rugby club.  But like all people, we have our sticking points and our quirks.  

Intel driver updating is great, I know I use it all the time to keep computers updated when the manufacturer is behind.   

The Intel Fortran compiler is great and this forum is extremely useful.  We appreciate all the Intel people do, so thank you.  

have a nice day.

John

[AlHill]

@Devorah_H_Intel That information is now lost.  As a repository, as a knowledge base, Intel did a horrible disservice to its users.  EOL or not, it should not matter to Intel.   Removing the drivers , bios, and related documentation was simply wrong.   As far as Fortran, how long before someone at Intel decides certain items/documentation/compilers/versions need to go? 

My advice to anyone who wants access to such information is to keep a copy for themselves, as you cannot rely on Intel to preserve it.

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[Maybe Windows 12 will be better]

[Steve_Lionel]

More on topic, numerous Fortran knowledge base articles have been removed by Intel simply because they used the name of a product no longer sold. That doesn't mean the information is not current or valuable. I found this intensely frustrating, especially when it was an article I wrote and wanted to reference!