NUC8i3CYSM slow performance issue - 10+ hour Windows update

[BuzzLightYear]

Few days back I brought a brand new Crimson Canyon NUC8i3CYSM1 unit (from Intel seller, sold and shipped by Amazon). This comes with 2.5 HDD with AMD Radeon540.   The windows update (Windows 10 2004)  is going on for more than 10 hours . This is after the initial set of updates has already been run and PC has been in use for 1 day. 

For comparison, I got 2 other Windows10 machines ( Intel i5 8th gen on 2.5 HDD  and Ryzen5 on SSD).  Including the NUC , all 3 machines more or less started the Windows 10 2004 patch update at same time. the first 2 machines finished in 30 mins or less. The NUC unit is still running and its close  to 10 hours. 

The issue seems to be somewhat related to either hard drive ( I suspect).   I have all the Windows driver updated prior to the latest big patch (2004) being applied.    Initially I thought the hard drive 5400rpm is usual for this slowness , but comparing to the otherlaptop that has 2.5 harddisk... its seems issue with NUC unit taking long. 

Is there a known issue with BIOS or Hard drive on this unit?  Seems very odd the windows updates are taking 10+  hours. 

Looking for answers from this forum on how to solve this.  Does Intel warranty cover this slowness / drive issues? 

[n_scott_pearson]

Did this NUC come with just the HDD or did it also have an Optane Memory module (in the M.2 slot) to accelerate this HDD? 

Please download and run the Intel System Support Utility for Windows and save the report to a file. Then, using the Upload dialog below the edit box, upload and attach this file to a response post.

 ...S

[BuzzLightYear]

No Optane installed. I see read errors on disk. Should that be a considered a faulty disk?

[LeonWaksman]

Hi @BuzzLightYear ,

1. From the SSU report attached to your post, I can see that the BIOS on your NUC is outdated. You have installed BIOS version 0039, dated 07/2018, while the latest version is 0046 dated 12/06/2020. So, BIOS was updated seven times since your installed version.

2. Also the other drivers on your system (for example the Network Driver, WiFi Driver are old).

3. In order to update the BIOS firmware, I suggest that you download and install the Intel Driver & Support Assistant (IDSA). Although, the IDSA will offer you to download and update BIOS and Drivers all at once, better download and update only BIOS first. Let your your NUC reboot and run the IDSA again.

4. If you prefer to update your NUC manually. instead of using IDSA, here you may find all the drivers for your NUC.

Leon

Edit:

The Intel Chipset Software should be downloaded and installed manually, even you are using IDSA. This driver is on IDSA Exclusion list. 

[n_scott_pearson]

I too was concerned when I saw the disk errors in the log. I think your first step should be to run CHKDSK with disk testing enabled and see what it says. You may have to reformat the drive with Quick option disabled. If this drive came with NUC, you might want to return it or file for RMA.
...S

[BuzzLightYear]

@n_scott_pearson   Update : I updated the bios and all drivers as recommended here. Reran the SSU, still same error(s) recorded for disk. 

Yes, the HDD came with NUC unit.   

Looking at the SSU output and as well as Windows Device Manager, the disk has a driver from Microsoft and it dates back to 6/21/2006. 

Device SCSI\Disk&Ven_&Prod_ST1000VT001-1RE1\4&1fcbdbba&0&020000 was migrated.

I'm curious... if the HDD is connected to SATA III interface, is there a way to measure the quality of that interface  other than getting READ ERROR / SEEK ERROR on the disk itself? 

As well if the manufacturer is SEAGATE, should i be looking at their drivers rather than microsoft's year 2006 driver? 

[n_scott_pearson]

No,  the standard SATA driver is up-to-date (it is just the date on the driver that is screwed up). This does bring up a question, however: Have you installed the Chipset Device Software (a.k.a. INF Update) package? This is not automatically installed by DSA; you have to do it manually. Here is the page for download: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28056/Intel-Chipset-Device-Software-for-NUC8i3CYSM-NUC8i3CYSN?product=126145.

After installing this package, reboot and then run command "chkdsk /r".

...S

[BuzzLightYear]

@LeonWaksman  TY for suggestion. Followed your IDSA recommendation : updated BIOS, restarted, updated drivers (wireless) and reran the SSU scan. See attached. Still seeing the high READ ERROR on the HDD. 

[LeonWaksman]

Hi  @BuzzLightYear ,

As advised by Scott, please run chkdsk command:

1. Right click on Windows Start Icon an then open Windows PowerShell (Admin).

2. At the prompt write command: chkdsk c: \f \r and press Enter.

3. Confirm restarting your NUC.

Leon

[BuzzLightYear]

Ran the CHKDSK /f /r . Restarted. SSU output still shows high error count in disk. 

Im going to follow the chipset update and redo the chkdsk /r. 

[n_scott_pearson]

Remember that SSU is just displaying what is in the Event Log. Unless you clear the Event Log, the entries are going to continue to show up in the report.

So, what did CHKDSK say? Did it report fixing issues?

...S

[BuzzLightYear]

plz see the chkdsk output from EventVwr.  By "clearing eventlog", did you mean EventVwr application logs? 

[LeonWaksman]

Hello @BuzzLightYear ,

1. There is no connection between chkdsk report and the Chipset Software installation. In my first post I advised you to install the Chipset Software, since it is excluded from the updates performed by IDSA. It is excluded, however it is important to have it installed, since it describes your system. The IDSA and Windows are using this information in order to install the correct drivers for your computer. So, once you have the Chipset Software installed, run the IDSA again to ensure that the relevant drivers are updated.

2. In the chkdsk log I don't see any problem in your HDD.

3. BTW, how is the perfromance of your NUC  now? You may download and run CristalDiskMark and run it to benchmark your HDD.

Leon

[BuzzLightYear]

@LeonWaksman 

• obtained CrystalDiskMark before chipset updates (results attached)
• latest chipset software installed  (from the link provided earlier)
• restarted windows
• IDSA ran , no new updates found. system up-to-date
• windows updates up-to-date
• SSU logs attached
• obtained CyrstalDiskMark results 

will rerun the CHKDSK, it takes few hours to obtain. haven't got to it.

Comparing the disk performance results, it appears chipset updates has worsened the performance of disk. see pictures. 

[LeonWaksman]

1. The Chipset Software has not affect on HDD performance. It installs the Windows .inf text files to provide to Windows information about your hardware. 

2. After comparing the SSU reports (before installing the Chipset software and after), I can't find any significant differences except that while running the first SSU report, the CPY was loaded by 2%, while in the second SSU the CPU the load was 31%. Probably during running this report an other task was run. In addition the DirectX was updated from version 11 to 12.

3. I found on net a review for NUC8i3CYSM, showing different benchmarks. If you will read the CristalDiskMark benchmark, you will find that the results in this review are very similar to yours. I agree with the  opinion that the HDD is the wek point in this NUC (it is not surprise).

4. You have possibility to buy a NVMe SSD and install it in the free M.2 slot in your NUC. This an example of such SSD.

5. If you will move your system and programs to the NVMe SSD and leave the HDD as a Data drive, your NUC will have much better performance.

Leon

[BuzzLightYear]

Ty for that benchmark site and validating my experience.  Upgrading to SSD was my final resort. 

A typical 2.5 HDD 5400 rpm get around 100MB/s r/w benchmark whereas this NUC unit gets 60MB/s. This might be a reason this unit is on clearance sale (see high number returns in Newegg and Amazon) . I'm just curious if the bottleneck was only in HDD then replacing with SSD makes sense. If the bottleneck is with that SATA cable / motherboard then I have a decision to make on type of SSD i should buy. 

• I prefer to buy 2.5" form factor SSD (replacing the HDD) so I spare the M.2 slot for Optane.
• Does this NUC unit support NVME SSD? There are Amazon buyers/ reviewers referring that Intel support had suggested this does NOT support NVME, so they resorted to SATA III SSD.   specific to your eg. Samsung 970  EVO ( NVME)  or Samsung 860 ( SATA) ? 

[LeonWaksman]

1. Having NVMe SSD in M.2 for Windows and programs and cheap HDD for Data (where the performance is less important) is much better solution then having an Optane memory in M.2 slot accelerating 2.5" SATA SSD . The NVMe SSD is 6th time faster that SATA SSD.  NVMe SSD + HDD or NVMe SSD _ SATA SSD is less problematic for maintenance (backup, restore), then Optane _ SATA SSD.

2. Here you have the list of compatible components, validated by Intel for your NUC. NVMe SSD are on this list.

Leon

[BuzzLightYear]

Greatly helps in what I'm about to purchase.  

That as well shows the Seagate 1TB ST1000VT001-1RE172   is not even certified to be in this unit.   Further search shows this ST1000VT001  hdd was certified for NUC8i3BEH model.   

Seems to be a gap in manufacturing and specifications. 

[n_scott_pearson]

Hold on, let's be clear: The list of validated memory, storage, etc. is not exhaustive. The Intel Compatibility Labs test with what parts they have available to them. If a part isn't included in the compatibility lists, it may simply be that the manufacturer didn't supply Intel with samples with which to test.

...S

[LeonWaksman]

1. I agree with Scott what he wrote above about the compatibility table. The fact that component is not listed it only means that it wasn't tested by Intel.

2. The performance what you have from the HDD are quite normal for HDD. For reference, I'm attaching a results ran on my Toshiba laptop equipped with Toshiba HDD.

3. So, if you want good performance, install NVMe SSD is the M.2 slot

Leon

[BuzzLightYear]

After hours of research, happy to report this is fixed to acceptable levels. 

See image.