16bit apps won't start using new SkyLake processor

[KVoss1]

When any 16 bit application loads, It just stops with no output. Check the taskmgr, found the NTVDM.exe used 25% CPU resource. No errors are reported. While I've read since the 4th generation intel doesn't test 16bit apps this is still required in the real world. What options are available.

[idata]

I would need additional information about this matter, please fill out more details here:

/thread/77761 https://communities.intel.com/thread/77761Allan.

[KVoss1]

Category

Questions

Answers (N/A if not 

applicable)

Description

Provide a detailed description of

the issue

16 bit apps will not start on T460s

Please place an X to the right of

the option showing how often you see this issue using specific steps. (Ex: 'Every few times a game is started it flickers.' <- This would be<p>  "Often")

Always (100%): X

Often (51-99%):

Sporadic (20-50%):

Very Sporadic (<20%): </span>

Hardware (HW)

Brand and Model of the system.

T460s 20F9

Hybrid or switchable graphics

system? ie Does it have AMD or NV graphics too?

No

Make and model of any Displays that

are used to see the issue (see note2 below).   LFP = Local Flat Panel (Laptop pane...

[idata]

Thank you for the information. I am currently researching on this issue. I will update this thread as soon as possible.

Allan.

[idata]

I have been trying to get an update on this issue, I would like to know if you were able to run the application on compatibility mode.

Also, have you tested the application with the latest beta driver: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26099/Intel-Beta-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-10-and-Windows-7-8-1-15-40-?product=88355 https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26099/Intel-Beta-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-10-and-Windows-7-8-1-15-40-?product=88355Allan.

[CParr4]

Hello All,

I have the same issue.

I tried the compatibility mode and the latest beta driver you propose but nothing change.

NTVDM.exe still running @25% without doing anything.

I tried also removing the Intel graphic driver and use the Windows generic vga, but not working too.

I tried the workaround proposed in the other thread ( ), disabling the Intel graphic card and intall a PCIe one. (AMD MSI R5450)

This works for me. I was able to run my application, no problem with the NTVDM.exe anymore.

If you have a better solution, I'll take it. Thanks.

Here is the informations about my configuration and attached files.

Category

Questions

Answers (N/A if not applicable)

Description

Provide a detailed description of the issue

16 bit apps will not start on Windows 7 SP1 pro 32bits

Please place an X to the right of the option showing how often you see this issue using specific steps. (Ex: 'Every few times a game is started it flickers.' <- This would be "Often")<p> 

Always (100%): X

Often (51-99%):

Sporadic (20-50%):

Very Sporadic (<20%):

Hardware (HW)

Brand and Model of the system.

custom industrial pc (DFI SD630 + Core i5-6500)

<span style="font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-size: 10pt; font-famil...

[Allan_J_Intel1]

Thanks for the information, I will send you a message after testing.

Allan.

[Allan_J_Intel1]

I have been trying to replicate this matter but the NTVDM.exe does not even reach 10%. I am not an expert on Lotus so, I tried to run it windowed mode.

Have you check with your developer for any patch or anything that may help on this issue?

Allan.

[CParr4]

Why do you talk about Lotus? I'm not using Lotus.

My application is a 16 bits installer of an application to manage an ICT tester. I have some chance because the application itself is a software which run under Exceed environment which is 32 bits application.

So my problem is just to install it.

Anyway, I have tested with the Windows Edit.com command and I have the same effect.

I didn't contact yet the manufacturer of the machine to see if he can do a 32 bits installer.

[Allan_J_Intel1]

Please let me know if your computer manufacturer has any feedback about this matter.

Allan.

[AJana1]

Hello guys here,

I am so interested in this problem. Well, I have to mention something relating with Microsoft Windows products. Windows NT never open doors for processor mode switches, in other words, 16-bit codes never run under the real mode of x86 or x64 processors, but are emulated by NTVDM with IA-32 codes for 32-bit version of Windows only. 64-bit version of Windows never provides backwards support for 16-bit application, except for some 16-bit installer, so no 16-bit applications have chance to be executed directly or indirectly under compatibility mode, which is a sub-mode or working container exactly, along side with 64-bit sub mode of Long Mode (AMD64 processor) or IA-32e mode (Intel 64 processor).

Processor Mode, normally has the meaning of different ways of operating on the same machine (underlying resources), but obviously, IA-32 and AMD64 (or merely point to its 64-bit mode) are roughly different but similar machines rather than the same one, from the aspect of processor architecture (rather than the underlying microarchitecture or the physical implementation). So the word "mode" in "Long Mode", "64-bit Mode" and "Compatibility Mode" is a very different and exceptional concept. And that is the reason why Microsoft initially named those systems as 64-bit extended system (x64). Well, the extended part of the system is just the AMD's effort for their AMD64 architecture, but severely based on Intel IA-32 architecture, and borrows from which too a lot. Those things make AMD64 could not be widely accepted as an AMD's exclusively possessed processor architecture. And this very extensional part keep itself almost standalone, leaving too much room for IA-32 architecture evolves into its 64-bit style as time goes by, and Itanium not gains the its another fame easily.

Well, for this very question, I would not put my focus on GPU driver, but on the processor and software. Or in other words, frankly, there is only a compatible problem. Some instructions, Intel might intentionally make out of work in order to drop ancient applications. Or Microsoft needs a patch to work around it. Of course, this is only my possibly "guess".

[LE_]

Hi,

As your problem is not only affecting fullscreen output or a startup problem but a total failure to start the application in windowed mode, the patch for the Intel VGA BIOS that I provided in may not be enough, but you can try it.

If it cannot patch it or doesn't help, here are some more hints:

1) The NTVDM doesn't support 32bit Port IN/OUT commands, but only 16bit. So if you are reading a video port into a 32bit register, only the lower 16 bit get filled, which may confuse the Intel Video BIOS code which depends on these registers. I wrote a patch for NTVDM that teaches NTVDM how to use 32bit IN/OUT, but I haven't released it yet, because this problem of NTVDM actually helps with my patch from the other thread so that I only need to patch one location instead of more locations which I would need to path if NTVDM would behave correctly and support 32bit I/O and the user needs to install fewer patches. However it may be beificial for the issue here. (Background: If Intel Video BIOS detects that it only gets back FFFFFFFF on a 32bit Port read, it jumps out of the ISR directly without doing anything which is not what we really want).

2) The drivers of some modern Graphic boards like i.e. NVIDIA ones have a flaw so that they don't specify which ports to route through to the graphics board in Fullscreen mode. So only the standard VGA Ports are routed through by VGAPORT.SYS. Intel VGA BIOS also uses F000 and F004 port for MMIO which are blocked by default. There is a little driver from http://web.archive.org/web/20061011090122/http://www.volny.cz/martin.sulak/ http://web.archive.org/web/20061011090122/http://www.volny.cz/martin.sulak/ which can be downloaded from http://www.rayer.g6.cz/download/videoprt.zip http://www.rayer.g6.cz/download/videoprt.zip that enables the port routing. This worked like a charm for my NVIDIA GeForce graphics card which had a problem with crashing Video BIOS on graphics mode switch. Maybe it is also benificial for Intel Graphics boards? Now finally, if it's just the Video mode switch that causes the VGA BIOS to lock up, I wrote a little DOS TSR that just reimplements the mode switch as an INT 10h hook. This was good enough for my GeForce BIOS mode switching bug, unti I discovered that the videoprt.sys driver patch was the better and more elegant solution. You can try this fix too, if you want, it's just a TSR tht doesn't do any harm and can easily be removed again: http://www.waldbauer.com/vb/showpost.php?p=8096&postcount=7 http://www.waldbauer.com/vb/showpost.php?p=8096&postcount=7

I hope that helps, looking forward to hear your testing results.

[thezedman]

I'm having a similar problem.  I cannot run full screen mode video DOS programs in NTVDM on 32-bit Windows 7 with Bay Trail (PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0F31 revision 0E).  So far, I've tried the following without success:

1. disabling both the Intel HD Graphics driver.  This allows me to enter full screen mode and start the application, but there is no video.  Instead, the program remains at the Command Prompt, occasionally with some video glitches (such as changing the colour of all the text).  I can hear the sound of the application, and the program will continue to accept input, but it will not display.  This is the same behaviour with VGA 13h, EGA, and CGA programs.

2. I've trieda installing the Mobile Ivy Bridge XP drivers on Windows 7 by modifying the inf file and installing it through Device Manager.  I've tried both iIVBD0 and iIVBM0 XP driver configurations.  In both instances, the driver fails to load properly and returns code 10.  However, on one occasion, I loaded a command prompt and ran the programs after the failed XP driver installation, which seemed to work unlike disabling the WDDM drivers.  I haven't tried repeating this, as it is not really a feasible solution.  That being said, it may be a clue as to what may be the cause of the problem.

3. I've tried Martin Sulak's videoprt.zip wrapper, which crashes the system.  I've read somewhere that Windows XP SP3 introduced some new export functions which required at least one user to modify the code and recompile it.  Could Martin Sulak's videoprt wrapper need similar modification to work on Windows 7?  If so, could you please help steer me in the right direction to getting a list of export functions so I can modify the code?

Please help me find a solution to this problem.

My set-up: I am currently using the most recent 2020 Intel HD Graphics Drivers (version 10.18.10.5161), my Video BIOS version is 1022.0, and I've updated my laptop's BIOS to the most recent version.