Intel lunar lake ram security

[rebok]

Hi! I'm excited for the upcoming Intel lunar lake generation due to it being a SoC so better security. I heard that you wouldn't be able to replace the ram but what if you delid the CPU, desolder the RAM and put the same RAM chips from another CPU, would it work? Is there any protection against mitm attacks on the ram?

[pressed_for_time]

I have seen some of the Intel videos on the upcoming Lunar Lake mobile processor and like you I am impressed by the innovation it represents. One of the innovations in on-package ram. Bearing in mind that this is a mobile processor I would have thought seriously interfering with it in the way you suggest would be absolutely inadvisable. And would not only void any warranty but would probably produce a non=functioning unit. Plus I do not understand why anyone would want to do this.

'mitm attacks on the ram' apart from being aware that mitm stands for 'man in the middle' I honestly have no idea. I am not sure why you are talking about attacks on the ram. The security of any computer is a function of a number of hardware and software features not least the enhanced facilities built into Windows 11. With Windows 11 there are options to have greater security if you choose to do so.

[rebok]

Mitm attacks work by being a middleman so for ex. You put an intercepting tool that does passthrough by default and you out it between the CPU and the ram after which after the system boots you inject the memory so the system does whatever you want bypassing almost everything unless you use TME

[pressed_for_time]

Still don't see what this is to do with Lunar Lake. I am aware that security vulnerabilities are talked about affecting PCs generally where the exploit relies on an ability to install something on a computer. In some cases it requires physical access to the machine to do this. So while it may exist in theory it simply does not exist in practice. I seem to see software updates on a regular basis to deal with security issues being fixed. Windows has security fixes. I see a BIOS update on my ASUS motherboard occasionally which deals with a security issue. So I don't really have any security concerns about my existing Intel system and I don't see why anyone would with Lunar Lake.

The launch event for Lunar Lake will be on Tuesday September 3 at 6 p.m. CEST (9 a.m. PDT). I think it will be livestreamed and I will be watching it. It marks the debut of Intel's second AI mobile processor after Meteor Lake. I note that Meteor Lake sales are now in excess of 15 million and that Intel's AI PC market share is substantially more than all of its competitors combined.

[rebok]

Lunar lake has the ram on the chip which would make TME useless if the memory chips would be placed on the CPU that if you try to do anything with the chips then the CPU would break. I wonder are chips placed like this as full RAM access allows to take control of the system.

[pressed_for_time]

As I understand it with conventional on-motherboard memory one of the issues is that the memory traces on the board have to be of equal length. This causes issues with latency, memory speed and power consumption. With Lunar Lake the placement of the memory on the package significantly reduces the length of the memory traces. This reduces both latency and power consumption. Another advantage is memory speed - Lunar Lake will be running LPDDR5X at 8533 as standard.

Security on Lunar Lake is taken care of  by the Platform Controller Tile (PCT). Intel say that the "...PCT is where security and connectivity are integrated. Security components deliver a robust integrated security solution with built-in security engines designed to establish a solid foundation for system protection."

[CoolBook]

@rebok 

Just out of curiosity, what could you "try to do"?

[rebok]

You can get your friend's laptop, desolder the CPU, delid it, put an interceptor instead of memory and connect memory to the interceptor. After which you glue the IHS once again, solder the CPU and boot the computer up. Now you communicate with the interceptor for it to inject modified apps like modyfing the login UI at the ram level to instead of decrypting the user's directory (if you have such encryption present) to do the same but also make a network request to your server with the provided password effectively compromising the system.

[AlHill]

@rebok   Make sure you mention that the warranty will be void if this is attempted.

Doc (not an Intel employee or contractor)
[If you find any Intel driver you might need, download and save it now.]

[rebok]

It's obvious

[pressed_for_time]

This is a theoretical security exploit that relies on a high degree of physical access to a machine including extensive modification. Seriously desoldering the CPU and deliding it as well - the chances of a CPU even surviving this are questionable.

[rebok]

Not entirely if someone really wants to get information from you then it might be possible.

[CoolBook]

@rebok 

Is there a study made regarding that exploit?