Thermal sensor issue i7-7700k?

[CK7]

I have a brand new build; EVERYTHING NEW. i7-7700k is running at stock speeds. I have the RAM set to XMP for DDR4-2666. Motherboard is Asus Maximus IX Hero Z270.

I have found that the i7-7700k reports a momentary (a second or less) temperature spike +25 > 35 degrees Celsius anytime a program is opened, a webpage is opened, a background app runs etc. The temperature blip cascades through the cores in random order; not the same every time. This causes my heatsink fan to constantly cycle up and down. Temperatures otherwise report as steady, normal increases. Peak temperature under Prime95 blend test is 71 degrees Celsius.

Attempted solutions:

I have re-installed my heatsink and thermal paste with no change.

I have tried to manually set my fan speed in the bios. The only setting that avoids this issue is setting the temperature / fan at a constant (and loud) 80-100%. I've tried PWM and DC mode.

I have found a few user reports elsewhere on the web, all reasoning that it's just the way it is. I don't accept that. Opening a folder or browser should not spike temps +30 degrees. Not only is the fan cycling annoying, it puts undue stress on my fan; possibly shortening its lifespan.

What's the answer, if any? RMA?

[JMcIl]

Here's the BIOS advanced CPU voltage settings screen. No Adaptive available - just Auto or Normal. No sign of CPU VID either - do you think that could be Dynamic Vcore?

[ARoss4]

Let me summarize:

1) Vcore for stock settings must be 1.200v. When you see more then 1.200v so your motherboard is overvolting your Vcore.

Stock frequency is 4.2ghz up to 4.5ghz with turbo boost.

2) If you do not see adaptive mode so your motherboard does not support it. So you ve to use the old way (offset or fixed).

3) IO and SA settings (these are called in different ways in different BIOS, like CPU IO, VCCIO, etc) must be under 1.050v.

4) CPU PLL OC (that in your bios is called VCCPLL OC) must be under 1.100 as datasheet says (some user here is stable at 1.080v, i am stable at 1.050v).

If you have different values (like your Vcore and your VCCPLL OC at 1.250v) you are out recommended voltages for i7 7700k, so it means your motherboard is overvolting your cpu.

[TGrab1]

Hopefully I will get some time this weekend to test out your claims. If it does stop the spikes then I will make sure to write up a detailed guide for people to follow for several different motherboard manufacturers as well as submitting the information to Intel for them to have a chance to further evaluate.

[TGrab1]

Ok so I finally got a second to look at my bios setup.

So I have the Cpu pll oc (found in tweakers paradise section on asus boards for anyone looking for it) set to auto initially. My auto setting was running this at .950 which is undervolted compared to your setting. I then changed it to 1.050 and noticed no change in spikes. I still jump from 28-30c to 38-40C when I open browser tabs or just from anything general use on my pc.

So maybe I am missing something here, but my particular board did not have this setting over-volted and second I find no link between it and the spikes. I still have the same spikes before/after. I mean I guess for giggles I can overvolt it and see if spikes get worse, but as things stands i think the myth that this setting reduces spikes is pretty much busted.

Thanks for your contribution though.

[MTenh]

Thanks,

I decided to check the forum here after a long while. Earlier this year I also got a 7700k. Tried something to cool it down, stop the fan spinning, but now I did as you summarised and max temps seem to have gone down 20-30 celsius, no more fan ramping up, great.

As long as the performace is ok and temps are down, I'm fine with it, don't have time to mess around.

[ARoss4]

TGrable wrote:

Ok so I finally got a second to look at my bios setup.

So I have the Cpu pll oc (found in tweakers paradise section on asus boards for anyone looking for it) set to auto initially. My auto setting was running this at .950 which is undervolted compared to your setting. I then changed it to 1.050 and noticed no change in spikes. I still jump from 28-30c to 38-40C when I open browser tabs or just from anything general use on my pc.

So maybe I am missing something here, but my particular board did not have this setting over-volted and second I find no link between it and the spikes. I still have the same spikes before/after. I mean I guess for giggles I can overvolt it and see if spikes get worse, but as things stands i think the myth that this setting reduces spikes is pretty much busted.

Thanks for your contribution though.

As you can see most of users on this thread has 20 degrees lower temps and reduced spikes just setting the mobo as i ve summarized above!

Spikes reduces from 30°-70° (40° spikes) to 30°-40° (10° spikes, as yours) opening a browser.

Max temp goes from 90° to 70°. Ten degrees spikes are normal for this kind of processor, because it reduces multiplier to x8, instead of x16, so when you use it opening a browser it goes from 800mhz to 4500mhz.

I have also delidded with liquid metal so my max temp is like 45°, and i have at maximum 2° to 3° degrees spikes.

If your motherboard has CPU PLL OC setted to 0.950 so it is not overvolting, but most of motherboards set it to 1.250/1.300v with any reason, as you can read from users above.

What it is not normal at all is having 30°/40° spikes: that happens to users who have CPU PLL OC overvolted, usually they have also 90°+ overheating during tests.

Setting the mobo as i summarized fix these issues, and for better performances, you can delid and change TIM with some liquid metal, reaching lowest temps, and lowest spikes as possible.

I ve tested it on three i7 7700k and it solve issues for all.

I repeat all values:

1) Vcore for stock settings must be 1.200v. When you see more then 1.200v so your motherboard is overvolting your Vcore.

Stock frequency is 4.2ghz up to 4.5ghz with turbo boost.

2) If you do not see adaptive mode so your motherboard does not support it. So you ve to use the old way (offset or fixed).

3) IO and SA settings (these are called in different ways in different BIOS, like CPU IO, VCCIO, etc) must be under 1.050v.

4) CPU PLL OC (that in your bios is called VCCPLL OC) must be under 1.100 as datasheet says (some user here is stable at 1.080v, i am stable at 1.050v).

If you have different values, like your Vcore and your CPU PLL OC at 1.250v your motherboard is overvolting.

[AMads3]

THIS

• CPU core voltage: mobo AUTO (1.310V) -> set manually to 1.200V
• PLL OC voltage: mobo AUTO (1.235V) -> set manually to 1.100V

Reducing PLL OC voltage alone did the trick. Insane temperature decrease (>15c instantly).

I am now able to run stable 4.8 ghz cooler than stock 4.2/4.5 ghz that was configured by AUTO (newest BIOS MSI z270 v1.3)

Funny thing is, MSI Command Center OC/tuning app listed the Auto values for SA, IO and PLL OC voltage in red writing, indicating they were way to high.

How is it even possible that this kind of overvolting is instated by these z270 motherboards built for Kaby lake cpus?

The 7700k white sheet confirms that it's not supposed to be volted this much (page 115->120)

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-desktop-s-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html Datasheet, Vol. 1: 7th Gen Intel® Processor Family for S Platforms

[igara]

So the PLL OC voltage actually does change temps or its a sensor issue?

there is a lot of confusion and I don't know what to believe although I think it does change temps..

Can You Guys Update Me Please whenever or not its changing temps or sensor issue?

EDIT:

Guys i changed my pll oc voltage to 1.1300 i opened MSI commmand center and realtemp and they show different temps while idle.what the hell is this?

Btw the temp on command center seems to be like i didnt even change the PLL OC voltage..

[ARoss4]

Lowering CPU PLL OC voltage lower the temperatures on CPU package sensor and core sensor.

But it also change CPU temperature on motherboard sensor, so i do not think at all it can be a sensor issue, because it could not influence two different component sensors.

I think that, as is obvious, setting the right voltages, as datasheet says, just lower the temperatures to a normal range.

What we should ask is why many motherboards overvolt the parameters of the kaby lake without reason, when parameters are setted on auto.

We should also ask why intel uses a not good tim on high-end products.

We should also ask why no producer is interested in the issue.

[ASušt]

AndrewRossi

Those questions were asked on the ~second page of this thread.

And you know, what was the answer? - Because we can!

That's OK for Intel....sort of...

But why e.g MSI/Asus/Gigabyte cannot release a voltage fixing BIOS!?

They are a crap load of cases, when MOBOs overvolt CPUs.

What's the problem?I just don't understand.

[AMads3]

MSI has responded with the following (I copyed from the 300+ page Kaby Lake overclock.net thread):

Thanks for contacting MSI technical support.

Regarding your concern,about the PLL OC voltage,we consulted the relevant department,yes,if you overclock the memory,the PLL OC voltage will rise automatically to improve the stability of the system and to ensure the success of your overclocking,we are sorry,the CPU temperature will be affected by PLL OC voltage,this is normal.

Even the same model,CPU and memory stability is not the same，if the PLL OC voltage not rise when the user overclock the memory,some CPUs and memory can not work stable after overclocking.For some users,if the PC still can work stable after the PLL voltage is reduced and they mind the CPU temperatures,users can adjust the PLL OC voltage manually,please don't worry.

Best Regards,

MSI Technical Support Team

NOW you could make the argument

If turning down CPU PLL OC skews temperature sensor readings: what then should the "optimal" or "genuine" voltage be, where sensors display the actual temperature? Default 1.100? BIOS AUTO without XMP enabled 1.200v? AUTO with XMP 1.300v? Or 1.000v +/- 5% as per the 7700k specification handbook? I have done my reading on this now and concluded for myself that I'm keeping PLL OC to a manual minimum. Would love to see an official Intel or MSI response, since the PLL OC value also affects temperatures on stock 7700k. They can't dismiss this as a problem only occuring when overclocking at your own peril.

[ASušt]

Again they say about overclock.

Half of this thread are @ stock.

[igara]

Guys make sure to check my massage above ^^ with the picture..

tell me what you think about that,its just weird

[ARoss4]

The overvoltage issue can be simply fixed by motherboards producers with a BIOS update. So why didn't they do it?

That's my theory about it. It is not the truth, it is just a theory. We know that some crappy Kaby Lake (a few percentage) need high voltages to be stable with high RAM frequency and we know that other devices can use the PLL voltage and clip to what they need, so maybe they purposely decided to overvolt voltages.

[igara]

Guys i changed my pll oc voltage to 1.1300 i opened MSI commmand center and realtemp and they show different temps while idle.what the hell is this?

Btw the temp on command center seems to be like i didnt even change the PLL OC voltage..as it shows 40C on command center and 31-33 on Realtemp..any idea?

[ARoss4]

ilayg6

Guys i changed my pll oc voltage to 1.1300 i opened MSI commmand center and realtemp and they show different temps while idle.what the hell is this?

Btw the temp on command center seems to be like i didnt even change the PLL OC voltage..as it shows 40C on command center and 31-33 on Realtemp..any idea?

The answer is simple: what you see on Command Center is the "Package" temperature, and what you see on Realtemp are "Core" temperatures. So, as you can see, package temp is one, core temps are four.

Please use a software like CPUID Hwmonitor, as you can see on krissu86pl screenshot. It will show you four cores temps, package sensor temp and also motherboard sensor temp in a single page.

I suggest you setting again your CPU PLL OC to Auto, then check all temps with Hwmonitor, then set it again to 1,130v to see the difference for all values. You can also set a lower CPU PLL OC then 1.130v, i am stable with 1.080 or lower on some CPU.

[IHack]

Thanks for the information. Datasheet voltages fixed the issue indeed.

I have MSI Z270 SLI PLUS Motherboard. I started to work with graphics and while importing some data, my temperature was about 85-95 degrees, with spikes. At first i thinked, this could be the cooling issue, but i have 150W tower - so it's not.

Second, the temperatures just spikes, when the multiplier and voltages changes.

After setting normal voltages (+ Adaptive Mode), processor does not spike. My temperatures does not go more than 53 degrees (60 with importing stuff, 68 with FPU stress) on full load with turbo boost technology on. In idle, temperatures is between 30-35 degrees.

For the record, O.C. for memory is turned on to 3000 Mhz.

Interesting, why Intel did not understanded the problem.

Basically, a global manufacturers bios update should fix the issue, for normal detecting processor and setting right voltages for it.

[MGl]

Hello Andrew, your post seems really useful, but i need help how to setup this in asus motherboard prime z270-p.

Can anyone make a simple tutorial for asus motherboards?

Thank you!

[n_scott_pearson]

ASUS should own that tutorial; its their design and their BIOS...

...S

[JMano2]

I use the adaptive setting so disabling SVID would do nothing for me, right? I'm just asking cause I saw someone was talking about SVID earlier. Even tho its set on adaptive and 1.20v, it still gives over 1.3v to the CPU under little to no load. I tried to throw it down to 1.19 in the BIOS and I had to reset it to default cause windows wouldn't boot when it was at 1.19v

Like I said earlier, with just editing the other voltages I've managed to reduce temps near 20c, but if anyone has some info on my vcore issue, it would be awesome! Thanks!

[JMcIl]

Hmm. Lowering my vCore to 1.2000V results in the computer hanging at random points. I've increased it back up to 1.225V but it still hangs. So I'm probably going to have to put it back onto Auto - which seems to default to 1.235V. Not ideal, but I'm hoping that the VCCPLL OC at 1.050V will do enough with the spikes to stop the CPU spinning up all the time.

The alternative is frankly to get rid of the i7-7700k on eBay and 'downgrade' to an non-unlocked version or even a non-unlocked i7-6700. But then, Google 'i7-6700 spikes' and there are plenty of discussion threads on that as well. Disappointing.

Regards to all, and thanks for your help,

John