Intel i5 6600K random lockup Freeze or BSOD...

[satas]

Hi to all!

firstly here is my configuration:

Intel i5 6600k at stock speeds

Asus Z170 ROG VIII Gene (latest bios 1504)

Corsair DDR4 16GB (2x8GB) 2400MHz (CMK16GX4M2A2400C14)

EVGA GTX980 SC (at stock speed)

I am experiencing random system freezes and BSODs. The screen locks up and the sound is stuck or it is just BSOD.

I already started a thread over at Tenforums and did a lot of troubleshooting but nothing really helped.

most of the time the issue happens while just browsing the internet, playing some flashgame in the browser etc.

it can randomly happen with listening to music with wmp or aimp or just while starting a portable application from usb drive.

it's really very random and unpredictable, that makes it very difficult to analyze - but the issue is there in the background all the time.

I'm running Windows 10 Pro and have the all the latest bios and drivers installed.

there is no manual overclock except the ram running on XMP profile at 2400MHz (instead of 2133Mhz).

how is it possible that Intel's Skylake can not handle ram at 2400MHz while Z170 chipset advertises speeds at >3000MHz.

Thank you in advance for the help and advices,

Sahin

[EstebanA_C_Intel]

Hello, All:

Any steps to replicate the issue or in the other side a possible workaround would be good to have in this thread for future users that could encounter with this scenario.

Additionally, this is being reviewed so far, any inputs from your side of the results with troubleshooting done so far would be great.

I will keep you posted.

Regards,

Esteban C

[satas]

Hi Esteban C,

in my second post I shared the links of my threads, I'm going to include them here as well.

1. As I own an Asus motherboard I opened a thread at the Asus ROG forums first and did some troubleshooting there according to other user's experiences.

It was helpful for me but it did not lead to a real solution, surprizingly lots of user having issues there.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?83392-Asus-Z170-Gene-strange-memory-issues Asus Z170 Gene strange memory issues...

2. As I'm getting BSODs in Windows 10 Pro I opened a thread over at Tenforums as well. The thread includes all the troubleshooting I've made together with the BSOD analyst guys.

They helped me as far as they could but unfortunately there was no permanent solution for me. The cause doesn't seem to be driver or OS related (*).

http://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/40664-bsod-attempted_write_to_readonly_memory-windows-10-pro-64bit.html Windows 10 Forums

*Here I wan't to mention the summary of the Windows 10 Pro BSOD log entries done by the BSOD analysts.

This is post # 144 in my Tenforums thread on the last page:

Post http://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/40664-bsod-attempted_write_to_readonly_memory-windows-10-pro-64bit-post630578.html# post630578 # 127, your last BSOD upload. Let us revisit.

Code:BugCheck 1A, {41284, 94a8000, 219a8, fffff58010804000} Probably caused by : ntkrnlmp.exe ( nt! ?? ::FNODOBFM::`string'+15f0f ) Followup: MachineOwner ---------

We have no more useful information in the dump other than the bugcheck code. It is the situation there, from the very beginning, post http://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/40664-bsod-attempted_write_to_readonly_memory-windows-10-pro-64bit-post566592.html# post566592 # 1 ......

Code:BugCheck BE, {fffffa8804c16da0, 8000000000200121, ffffd00021e694e0, a} Probably caused by : ntkrnlmp.exe ( nt! ?? ::FNODOBFM::`string'+4126b ) Followup: MachineOwner ---------

And no more information.

All your crash dumps are the same.

Stop 0x1A or stop 0xBE, all of them are memory related issue. It can be two types of things, viz ...

• A http://win7.tips/drivers driver is passing bad information to the memory
• A memory hardware is failing. A memory hardware includes 1. RAM, 2. DIMM slots, and 3. Memory Controller, a motherboard element.

Now coming to narrowing the issue down. First of all, we need to discriminate it between software (driver) issue and hardware issue.

There are various different ways to determine a driver issue.

• Driver verifier ==> The thread say it was enabled but was not fruitful.
• Reinstalling Windows as vanilla ==> You say you have done it, with no change.
• Installing any other OS. Say Linux Mint ==> That is still a open option.

If the crashes are just the same irrespective of the above three, then it is not a software/driver related issue but a hardware caused issue.

Now to narrow down the possibilities in the hardware environment, Memtest86+ comes with no issue. So the RAMs are good themselves; as the DIMM slots are. But we see that those are technically incompatible with the hardware. So it adds to the list as number

# 4, possible RAM incompatibility.

If it is not that issue too, then it is a memory controller related issue, that means the motherboard.

Now you know all about how to narrow the possibilities down. Solution of the issue depends on what you can do to narrow it down.

That's all.

upda...

[EstebanA_C_Intel]

Hello, sahafiec:

Thank you for the all the information provided regarding this.

Glad to hear that you got an AWR on this, feedback after using the replaced unit would be great to have for future references.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Esteban C

[satas]

Hello Esteban C,

no problem but I'm sorry to say I'm in a real trouble right now - it happened exactly what I was afraid of the most.

I installed the new arrived cpu today, exactly same model as my old one, and I have currently even more issues than before.

previously I had random "MEMORY_MANAGEMENT" bugchecks but now I have troubles even booting to Windows.

to be more precise I have 2 different sets of rams for testing, both Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR4 2400MHz, one kit of 2x8GB and one kit of 4x4GB.

with my old cpu I had the same issue with both of them, the random bugchecks, but never had a problem to boot into Windows.

with the new cpu I have problems even booting to Windows and if I manage it I get complete system freezes within 5-10 minutes.

so the new cpu behaves much more strange than the old one and I get additional issues I never had before.

the only difference I see is that the new cpu is made in Vietnam with Batch X544B731 and the old one is Malaysia with Batch L524B318.

so why do they behave so differently on the same sytem with the very same settings, that's not the way it should be.

bios and all driver used are the same and the very latest for my motherboard and Wİndows 10 is up to date.

I double and tripple checked everything while exchanging the cpu: the ram, the slots, both cpus, motherboard pins, motherboard cpu slot, cooler - everything I can think of.

I took my time and spent over an hour for the whole installtion process to avoid installation failure.

If I manage to boot Windows everything seems ok, no heat issues, all parameter and voltages are fine.

until the system just freezes completely, then only a hard reset helps to start it again (no normal power down is possible).

the only way I was able to use Windows for a bit longer was to boot with only one ram stick on the B2 ram slot of the motherboard.

that's how I was able to write all this down saving the text every couple of minutes just in case.

all other combinations, using 2 or 4 sticks of ram end in a freeze, no chance.

with all that said, the old cpu was planned to be picked up on monday but in this situation I can't do that as my situation got worse.

I'm really out of choices and don't know what to do next except install my old cpu back and doublecheck again.

at best I could reverse to my old situation having the random bugckecks, bad but at least not as bad as now.

so what am I supposed to do now?

what other choices do I have?

[CCris2]

Hi,

I'm sorry that you still have problems.

After this I think the only problems you may have are the PSU or the mainboard.

What is the PSU you have ?

[satas]

Yes Ronin, I'm sorry too - that was not what I hoped for while upgrading to Skylake. I used almost all platforms until now and never got such issues. Maybe I was just lucky, who knows.

I'm sure about the PSU and motherboard as I've already checked them during the previous troubleshooting. My PSU is the EVGA SuperNova 650W P2 Platinum, 6 months old, delivering rock solid voltages in bios as well as in Windows. the motherboards ram slots were also checked indirectly while MemTest86+ testing the arms, no errors either.

Generally the issues I have doesn't seem related to power or load. What irritates me the most is the totally different behaviour of the two cpus. That's really ridiculous.

[CCris2]

Let me tell you one thing

I'm assembling computers since 1999. It doesn't matter if the voltages are rock solid or if the mainboard looks good

On PSU's even if voltages are rock solid if the PSU fails to maintain voltage constant when under load even for a fraction of a second you get a crash

And I remember once when Intel was producing mainboards our computer shop received a batch of Intel mainboards almost all with defects, and they were all new. And the defect were like the problems you have now ...

I don't know if you bought mainboard and PSU from same shop but if you did, go with them in service. Clearly there is a problem with one of them.

[satas]

I would totally agree with you if I was having reproducible issues under load. But that is just not the case, my generall issue is very random and never under load. How did this PSU and motherboard manage the overnight MemTest86+ with 9 loops and not a single error? Or the 72 hour Driver Verifier test with no errors or crash as well? Not to mention the gaming sessions and so on.

of course it would be easier for me to have a spare Skylake system for testing but I just don't have that option. All the parts were bought over the internet and no ship nearby capable of the troubleshooting that's needed.

that's my dilemma and why I hoped the cpu could fix it all.

[CCris2]

That's why I never buy components from shops that are not in my town

Memtest is not so conclusive for me as it doesn't behave like in real workload when the bites in memory are not repetitive.

I was able to crush any windows system in certain scenarios.

Try run as many applications, benchmarks and maybe games as many as you can in same time for 1 day

If there is a real problem with one component windows will crash for sure.

[satas]

I would gladly do the same but I just can't get such parts in my town.

with the new cpu on the old system configuration a crash is guaranteed within 5-10 minutes even with no load.

[CCris2]

Then in this case all you can do is try tweaking some voltages.

In that HWinfo I see a voltage that intrigues me.

That CPU PLLs OC, on my mainboard in bios description is noted that is for system stability when OC and it should be default 0.9 ... That voltage doesn't even show in my HWinfo and on your mainboard is 0.6.

[satas]

yes I could try to dive even deeper and tweak voltages and so on.

but in my opinion something is not right if you have to do such tweaking for a system to just run as it should on stock.

I'm not overclocking and not even using XMP, everything is on stock, bios is cleared and bios optimized defaults are loaded.

in this state the system has to run error free with no tweaking in my opinion.

I monitored the voltages while running the two cpus and they are basically the same.

there is nothing unusual when the system runs, until it crashes of course.

I'll do some further testing during the weekend but I need someone from Intel to contact me urgently as I have to send one the cpus back on monday.

[CCris2]

Yes but that voltage should be default 0.9 if no overclock, and your mainboard is setting it to 0.6 ... Maybe Esteban can tell us what's the right PLL voltage for I7 6600k

[satas]

I rather think it should be normal as it is. I'm including the voltages of a guy from the Asus forums who uses the same cpu, motherboard and ram combo like me.

the voltages that are higher than mine are caused by the XMP, which he has enabled. as you can see the PLL voltage is the same like mine, even very slightly lower.

[CCris2]

If he has same combo, his system is sable ? Does he has discrete video card or he is only on igpu ?

[satas]

yes, his system is stable meanwhile but initially he also had some issues on stock speeds.

for him some changes in the bios did it, I tried the same but it did not help until now.

[CCris2]

Is windows setup to go in complete sleep if you don't do anything on it ?

[satas]

no, I don't use sleep, hybernate etc. all switched off. I use balanced power configuration optimized for ssd.

I'm testing and researching further at the same time. I was just able to boot with 2x8GB ram on dual channel setup to Windows.

This was not possible yesterday, I'll have to test both cpus I think and compare the results to be able to make a clear statement.

unfortunately my original bugcheck issue occures very randomly.

so if both cpus finally behave identically I still don't have the time for a long run to verify my original issue.

no matter that I'll do my best over the weekend to narrow it down.

[CCris2]

Ok. The way I see it is that Asus got some golden samples CPU's which work ok on lower voltages and they set up mainboad on lower voltages for that type of CPU. They didn't respect Intel's CPU specs wanting to get lower power usage, to look good in power benchmarks. And some CPU's that are in specs from Intel sheets fail to work as they should.

I have a different mainboard from a different company and they used Intel's specifications. That's why that difference in PLL voltage... So you can write to Asus tech department and tell them about your problem, that you tested 2 CPUs and on was even worse then the first.

Glad I didn't took Asus mainboard because I was thinking at first to buy Z170 Deluxe ... But i didn't liked the capacitors on it.

[CCris2]

Hi,

Just made a new update of my mainboard bios and I read again description of CPU PLL and at the end I noticed something that you should consider: "Each CPU has different CPU PLL voltage and you should find your specific CPU PLL voltage". This is exactly whats written there. So in my opinion your mainboard is setting to low CPU voltage. You can safely increase slowly that voltage 0.610, 0.620 ... till you get stable system.

That voltage is powering CPU when system is not doing anything, and if you set up in bios idle base frequency to 1000 then you need to increase CPU PLL voltage for sure.

[satas]

hi Ronin,

I never considered the CPU PLL voltage as that crucial. on the other hand on the forums I've never seen a higher CPU PLL voltage on sistems with 6600K and on stock speeds.

I've read that some user achieve higher overclock by slightly increasing the CPU PLL voltage. but in other cases there was no real benefit from doing that.

more over I didn't find any comment stating that CPU PLL voltage increases stability on stock speeds.

I have a couple small clues which I'm following since yesterday. I managed to yet rid of the initial problems I had with the new cpu.

I hope for the best, will also repeat the tests with my old cpu as well.