disable throttling - Tigerlake-UP3(i7-1186GRE)

[flykevin0021]

Hello, 

As I understand, the difference between i7-1185GRE and i7-1186GRE is that disable throttling. 

And  the throttling meaning is below. 

Intel CPU throttling is a built-in safety feature where the processor automatically reduces its clock speed (performance) to prevent overheating or excessive power draw, protecting itself from damage.

So, I expected the i7-1186GRE to keep working without throttling when it reached a certain point(throttling temperature_100C). But it was not work as I expected. 

As I did test the both CPU(1185GRE and 1186GRE) with my system, the both works same in Tjmax temperature_100C. the CPU throttling happened in both CPU during workload test. I can't find any difference behavior in both CPU in my workload test. 

Question is .... Is there any specific BIOS configuration needed for disable throttling in i7-1186GRE?  for example, change bios setting as like disable speed-shift or speed-step.

Can you guide us how to disable throttling in i7-1186GRE? or if I have misunderstanding, please correct me.  

and if you need my test result for your review, I can share with you. 

Thank you for your support, 

Kevin 

[n_scott_pearson]

Not sure what you read where, but all Intel processors come with and enforce the CPU throttling mechanism. This mechanism is to protect the processor from a potentially catastrophic failure. What I don't get here is why someone would want to disable this feature. If temperatures are regularly getting to/above the Tjmax temperature, this is an indication that the processor's cooling solution is insufficient. Fix the cooling solution, don't disable the protection!

I would also note that, if CPU throttling is disabled (something that a BIOS might implement), the processor also has a secondary immovable temperature threshold where power is removed to protect the processor from meltdown. I have seen cases where this still occurs. I have also seen cases where the motherboard and other components around it cannot handle the excessive heat radiating from the processor and themselves fail. They are designed to handle the heat radiating from the processor when it is regularly sitting just shy of the Tjmax temperature.

I successfully stayed away from the I and S words here - but I was sorely tempted to use them.

...S

[flykevin0021]

Hi, 

Thank you for your comment. Yes, I understand what you say. Anyway some of customer wants the feature for a specific use case. They don't want CPU throttling in any situation.  

Please refer to the below for the feature of i7-1186GRE. But the problem is that is not working as expected. 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/secure/care/products/218655.html

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Ordering this product requires SPS approval and a signed contract with Intel Legal. This product is only recommended for use within the operating conditions defined within this datasheet/EDS. Customer has requested that Intel disable automatic thermal throttling for customer’s application. This product will not automatically throttle if used in a manner that exceeds the thermal conditions defined within this specification. Operation of the product in a manner that exceeds the thermal conditions defined within this specification may result in thermtrip and/or a reduced reliability lifetime. The use of turbo mode will increase the risk of exceeding the thermal specifications and should only be used with an appropriate form of thermal control management. Any Intel warranty is automatically voided, and customer assumes all risk and liability for use or operation of this product outside any of the defined specifications.

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Thanks, 

Kevin

[Diego_INTEL]

Hello @flykevin0021,

Thank you for contacting Intel Embedded Community.

It depends on what is causing the throttling but generally, yes, disabling Speedtest and Speed Shift may help a lot to maintain a more stable frequency in a longer time, as it will disable Turbo features that cause more thermal heat.

Also, the PL1 and PL2 limits may affect when to start the throttling, you can try changing these values.

In Linux, disabling drivers like Thermal Daemon may help to remove the automation and get more user control, this way you can keep the frequency and temperature stable.

To set the frequency to a fixed value you can try the following:

Intel Advance Menu > CPU Configuration > CPU Flex Ratio Override > Enable

Intel Advance Menu > CPU Configuration > CPU Flex Ratio settings [18]

This will set all cores at 1.8 GHz for example.

Best regards,

@Diego_INTEL 

[flykevin0021]

Hi, 

Thank you for your guidance that is helpful to maintain cpu frequency as specific one. 

I understood what you mean - "It depends on what is causing the throttling"

As I checked that the settings of CPU Flex Ratio override/setting are helpful to maintain cpu frequency during operation. however the throttling happened still when CPU temperature reached at 100C. I think this throttling once cpu temperature 100C could not be blocked by any BIOS setting. and the throttling point for cpu 100C would be different a little bit per each CPU. That would be characteristic of each CPU. 

and we can make a throttling point by setting of PL1 or PL2. and another throttling function could be made by speed shift or speed step setting. but the throttling by CPU temperature 100C could not be blocked. Is it correct understand? 

Well, can you explain the below comment that is captured in description of the i7-1186GRE? 

Customer has requested that Intel disable automatic thermal throttling for customer’s application. This product will not automatically throttle if used in a manner that exceeds the thermal conditions defined within this specification. 

this makes confuse to us. we understood that the cpu would not happen throttling in every situation even though cpu temperature reach at 100C. 

Thank you, 

Kevin Kim 

[Diego_INTEL]

Hello @flykevin0021,

It is something like you have mentioned, there are critical points like the Tj temperature where the processor will start throttling for self protection.

Best regards,

@Diego_INTEL 

[flykevin0021]

Hi, 

As I know the difference between i7-1185GRE and i7-1186GRE is the disabling automatic throttling. Now I'm not sure what is the difference between the both. Can you explain? 

Thanks, 

Kevin 

[mcacciotti_elix]

Hello @flykevin0021 ,

Interesting thread, thank you for bringing this up.

Indeed, having the throttling disabled is often a key customer requirement for the highest level of safety airborne electronics ( @n_scott_pearson that's the reason ).

We have previous experience with the i7-1186GRE as we integrate it in some of our systems.

Have you ever consulted Intel's addendum #737989 titled "11th Generation Intel® Core™i7-1186GRE Processor Mobile Thermal Design Guide Addendum for Edge Specific Applications (Thermal Throttling Disabled)"?

According to it, specific BIOS and MSR settings are needed to disable the Thermal Control Circuit (TCC). Once the TCC response is disabled, the processor will continue to operate until the THERMTRIP# signal is asserted (catastrophic shutdown).

@Diego_INTEL do you confirm this behavior and the correctness of the addendum mentioned above?

Thank you in advance,

Mattia

[flykevin0021 · Accepted solution]

Hi Mattia, 

Thank you for your guidance. 

Fortunately, I've got the information from a local representative.  and I have confirm the function works correctly as described in i7-1186GRE with the specific BIOS configuration and MSR setting. I saw the difference behavior of CPU frequency in extreme temperature( over 100C) between i7-1185GRE and i7-1186GRE with the setting. 

As the result, the document #737989 was a key point for the thermal throttling disabled. It would be happy to be provided this kind of key guidance to customer at the appropriate time. Anyway thank you very much for your support. 

And this topic can be closed.