Appeal for a sticky thread to start a sign list to re-introduce the Array Visualizer in IVF

[tropfen]

Hello Steve,

is it possible to start a sticky thread as a list for people to sign a appeal for re-introduce Array Visualizer in IVF?

This might be a way to show decision makers from intel the wish from the users.

Thanks in advance
Frank

[Steven_L_Intel1]

Here you are. Have at it. And yes, I will make sure that the "decision makers" see this.

[jimdempseyatthecove]

Add me to the list

The Array Visualizer was one of the least understood products of Intel Software and thus was not fully exploited the Intel Software marketing. It was a sad day for me when Array Visualizer was dropped.

Marketing may have assumed AV was only used in support of debugging and integration into development platforms was an incessant problem. Marketing didn't use or understand the product. The Array Visualizer was the only reason why I chose Intel Visual Fortran in 2005. A compiler that was marginally faster (in those days) was not the selling point. The visualization library that came with it was the selling point. Let's put Visualization back into Intel Visual Fortran. (Or is thisIntel Visual Fortran)

My use of AV was in driving 3D charts from within my simulation program during simulation runs. AV, though difficult to program, provided features and flexibility not found by any other means. With AV you can easily get many views of your data as well as multiple instances of different views of your data. If you failed to program a chart, you could add one ad-hoc while your simulation run was running. There are too many good parts about AV to mention here.

Using OpenGL with GLUT (F90GL), though easier to program, is feature poor as compared to Array Visualizer. Although Array Visualizer may be built on top of OpenGL and serves the functionality of GLUT, the integration into IVF was different and these differences have distinct advantages. The traditional programming model of GLUT has the application subservient to the display driver. Whereas for simulation, you want the display driver to be subservient to the application. You cannot have a computationaly intensive simulation running in a display driver idel loop. (I've written solutions around this, but this is not a traditional programming for GLUT).

Jim Dempsey

[Neels]

Yes please!!

Neels

[ZlamalJakub]

I want AV too.

I am using AV for debugging and in my applications to display 3D data (surfaces).

Jakub

[sknobat]

Add me to the list

Nobat

[Steven_L_Intel1]

If, when replying, you can write how you used AV, it would help.

[tropfen]

I am working in the atmospheric science community (air pollution, climate models). In the part I am working, Fortran is our major language to design methods and models. If you are working with a 3D atmosphere, changing over time a visualisation tool is a huge advantage.

I started my scientific life with free Fortran tools like GFortran. A couple of years ago I came across Compaq Visual Fortran. I was able to get money for it because I could show the advantage of the Array Viewer. Until 2010 we were able to use the unsupported Array Viewer with Win XP 32bit on Intel Fortran. We have changed to Win 7 64bit. The Array viewer is not working any more.

My money department is now saying, do we really have to pay money for the yearly update any more? Our administration is already thinking about cutting down this money.

Please think about your decision to take the Array viewer out of Intel Fortran. We are needing it for our work.

Frank

[jimdempseyatthecove]

Two screenshots.
One using Array Visualizer / Array Viewer, the other using F90GL
The two were of the same model (both viewers open concurrently during the same simulation run at T=0
I am inexperienced at using F90GL (GLUT over OpenGL) so my skill is low at this point.


Below is a screenshot of Array Viewer.
The good part is the visual appearance of the lines. These are relatively smooth.
The bad part, is on the right side some of the wire frame cubic objects were dropped from the image.
The AV source code is not available so I cannot fix this.


ArrayVisualizer


Next is the image from F90GL
The good part is, all the objects are drawn
The bad part, the lines are quite jagged as compared to the AV screenshot. I have enabled GL_LINE_SMOOTH
Without line smoothing the lines are more jagged. Line thickness is greater in F90GL.
I haven't looked around to see if I can reduce this and get better looking lines.

F90GL

If someone has a suggestion for improving the appearance I will appreciate it.

The 3D graphing is an important aspect to visual computing.
Note, I am not running a video game with approximations of physics.
I am running a engineering simulation program, where the graphics run in the background during the simulation.

One of the striking advantages of Array Visualizer / Array Viewer is the ability to Browse the database during run time.
Below is the browse of theTether that stretches from center of thering of cubes to the cube nearest (bottom).
Those are theposition verticies (other data off right of scrolling window)


Of particular interest to me, is I can horizontal scroll (or enlarge the window) and follow strain values in spreadsheet form
or view the 3D chart (image) with colored chart lines following the tether plot line. These "spreadsheets" present live data
during the execution of the simulation.

I shudder at trying to re-implement this functionality using F90GL

Jim Dempsey

[abhimodak]

Dear Intel Fortran Decision Makers

One line summary: At the least, Please^infinity get rid of the integration issue on 64bit.

4 years ago, I spent hours trying to figure out why AV does not work on Win64 when it used (and still) works without any problems on Win32....and then after it was made clear that there is an issue with the integration, a few more hours to write my own visualizer and also finding ways to make the AV-libray calls work on Win64.

I feel that AV is a tool whose value is simply not well-understood or perhaps it hasn't been presented well. There are other tools/softwares that do the job but having it all well-integrated just like MKL would be a HUGE benefit. Although at present the libray calls can be made to work (http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/showthread.php?t=75901) on 64-bit, getting rid of the integration issue and enabling it through "View Array" should be given high enough priority. Come on, it is there...please let us use it.

Please consider doing the following (arranged in order of complexity as per my understanding):

(1) Fix the integration issue so that AV can be used in debug mode

(2) Fix the library call issue

(3) Consider supporting some basic things such as adding proper modules and libraries for a given platform at the install time of IVF (same as done for MKL)

(4) Consider full-support / development for AV.

Sincerely

Abhi

[Anna_S_1]

Hi,
I am interested in AV being integrated with future versions of IVF.
I mainly use AV for debugging.

Regards
Zoran

[JohnNichols]

Count me in , I do large FEM model development and it has always helped.

JMN

[anishtain4]

I need that too, that is pretty usefull for debugging codes where you have fields so you can see where your solution is getting diverged?

[kyudos]

Another vote from me.

I previously used AV for data visualisation (to look at the surface generated by water enthalpy calculation routines). I currently use it to display 3D terrain data.

[sabalan]

I am still running CVF 6.6 on Win7-32. An upgrade to a compiler without 3D AV both at debug time and as redistributable executables would not be an option for me.

Sabalan

[martin_bauer]

Hi,
Because of AV, I still use CVF in my computer. After I am sure there is no error any more, I compile my program in 64bit server using IVF. So my code has some subroutines especially written for CVF and IVF.
Without AV,it is difficult to check some errorhappened inan array.
regards,
Lei

[Fons_Brosens]

In our research group "Theory of Quantum and Complex Systems" I volunteered to test the option for replacing CVF by IVF for all members of the group. My advice will clearly be NOT to invest in that replacement because of the lack of an Array Visualizer. I shall also distribute this (negative) advice among the scientists and research groups with whom we have a collaboration. An Array Visualizer comparable in quality with the one in CVF is absolutely required.

[jimdempseyatthecove]

Fons,

To add weight to your position statement, how many IVF licenses might you impact with your negative endorsement?

Jim Dempsey

[Steven_L_Intel1]

Fons,

Thanks for your comments. It would be helpful if you could tell me which Fortran compiler, including such a feature, you would recommend as an alternative.

[tropfen]

Hello Steve,

i am not the one you have ask, but i would like to to add an answer. (being the one having started the thread)

Currently i am using 3 compiler for my work (and i do hate it)

1) CVF 6.6 (for debug, based on WinXP Mode)
2) IVF11.1.070 (for developing win32 applications based on XEffort)
3) IVF12.1.xxx (for 'fast' numeric runs)

That means i usually start must of my projects with CVF (to have the dsw and dsp files) than doing the update to IVF. Every time i run into debug problems i start the WinXP mode --> start CVF --> there i can use the AV to find the problem inside GBytes of arrays.

If i find a new compiler doing the AV and win32 stuff, we will change

Frank

[JVanB]

If someone has a suggestion for improving the appearance I will appreciate it

Although this was an old post and not germane to the thread, I point out that you need glEnable(GL_BLEND) and glBlendFunc(GL_SRC_ALPHA,GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA) to fix the jaggies in OpenGL, not just glEnable(GL_LINE_SMOOTH) and glHint(GL_LINE_SMOOTH_HINT,GL_NICEST).