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Fortran and Python

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
693 Views

I spent a less than pleasant five days reviewing  a thesis. As part of the review I downloaded a couple of samples from the University. 

One had a comment on programming some interesting equations that made me chuckle a lot. 

Page 14 line 224 is worth looking at - to see a modern student who thinks Python is the answer and not Fortran.  

 

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andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
562 Views

It would be nice to be able to edit that last post.....

View solution in original post

20 Replies
FortranFan
Honored Contributor II
614 Views

@JohnNichols ,

You may want to read this article - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2649-2 -  and be happy the rich scientific Python ecosystem is enabling many, even students, with their work including in the area of array programming, something where Fortran falls woefully short now in the modern world.

mecej4
Black Belt
595 Views

A 2014 paper attempted to raise this question in an intriguing way, setting out the following:

"English is an imprecise language to begin with (e.g. compared to Baltic languages with noun variations, and to French which has more verb conjugation formats), and grammar is being taught less and less rigidly in many high schools now. Can this (growing) imprecision in spoken languages affect the ability of students to handle the extreme precision required to program? Are programming languages such as Python better than programming languages such as Java better suited to introductory programming because they require less precision?"

The thesis (link in JohNichols' post) itself contains many illustrations of such imprecision. Equations (2.2) - (2.4) on page 13 use the Greek letter 'upsilon' instead of the intended 'nu' (see Line 210 on page 13). Equation (2.10) contains more than one error -- the right hand side is dimensionally inhomogeneous!

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
573 Views

Python does have a wealth of support systems and it is useful to people who just want to do some simple coding on the side or who have the same problem time after time. But to use Python to do ocean wave analysis using 475000 lines of new code that I would assume only the Professor's students will ever use appears to be an interesting way to spend 3.5 years. 

It is like R, Mathematica, etc.. etc.. etc.. which one do you use and learn.  

I appreciate the limitations of Fortran, and I appreciate that competition means we will have different languages, even languages that evolve with time. However there are only a few languages that will allow late 1960's code to run first time.  Fortran and Lisp.  One suspects that there will be a new Python along shortly. 

The real issue, is that Fortran evolves slowly and Lisp is just to hard and to slow. 

Of course the fact that this started with a PhD Thesis review for an engineering student and I put the first data set into EXCEL and calculated the mean and standard deviation and did not get the same answers as the student.  OK, so it was 10 numbers.  The second one was the same. I then downloaded a couple of recent theses and found the sorts of stuff I posted, one had every second figure missing, I could not find one that presented a standard thesis format -  all were weird formats, no great logic. 

Aside from that it is all fun. 

JMN

andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
562 Views

I love Python. The Holy Grail was my favourite followed by The Lift of Brian.

andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
563 Views

It would be nice to be able to edit that last post.....

View solution in original post

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
533 Views

Andrew would edit the Life of Brian. 

Although considering it is a religious movie, the Lift seems appropriate. 

I just read the thread where Dr Fortran mused on two errors, the Life of Brian and Dr Fortran making two errors in one day, I will watch tonight for other signs, perhaps Brian will return.  

Perhaps in good humour we could look at the entrails of a program.  Hang on we do that anyway. 

 

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
531 Views

For a while there was an edit button I thought on this new fangled store bought thingy - when did Intel remove it. It was on the dot dot dot on the side. 

Please no references to Mamma Mia. 

andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
505 Views
Edit is no more, it has ceased to be. It is an ex function.
jimdempseyatthecove
Black Belt
480 Views

I edited yesterday using ..., will try now.

This was added.

Perhaps ...  has a time window?

Jim Dempsey

jimdempseyatthecove
Black Belt
482 Views

Note, IMHO while I think it is proper to edit a post to fix a grammatical error, or fault. I do think it inappropriate to completely change the meaning of a post, without leaving an audit(edit) trail. Either through use of strike through and/or inclusive of when the change was made. It is very confusing to read responses to a query that has completely changed meaning.

When you (me too) make a mistake, own up to it.

Jim Dempsey

andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
471 Views

I think Steve also reported he could edit, which suggests it is  a permission granted to some and not others. I Agree  on the rewriting of history, for a post to be locked after a period of time or after following comments have been made is generally an ok thing. However the kneed to corrukt mis[pelt thongs is also qwyt imprtant.   

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
456 Views

Although Fortran programmers are a interesting group of people and here I use interesting as defined for Queen Elizabeth II. Spelling people and grammarians are much more interesting. 

The classic example must be Webster in changing centre to center to sell Dictionaries.  Almost like saying Fortran should have free format. I remember when that arrived and I was shocked. 

Webster's financial interest leaves some words such as central challenged in non UK English. 

Ah the joys of language. 

mecej4
Black Belt
440 Views

Throughout today, while logged in to this forum, I found myself not allowed to edit my earlier posts. Here is a screenshot:

No Edit menu item in vertical ... listNo Edit menu item in vertical ... list

P.S. A few minutes after posting the body of this note, I am able to edit and add this line as post-script.

andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
423 Views

I will try and correct this speellin mistake

andrew_4619
Honored Contributor I
422 Views

So I think based on the experience of a sample size of three we conclude only Blackbelt status bods can edit posts.....

mecej4
Black Belt
409 Views

"...only Blackbelt status bods can edit posts..."

But not always!

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
380 Views

Whoever did a community poll to choose the titles awarded to the members of this august body were clearly looking at a group with an average age of 5.  

It reminds me of a trip to the optometrist 

Is Blackbelt better or Valued Contributor III

The kid in the back did you choose one or two - ah.. toilet is down the hall 

Actually a nicely organized conference with all of you would be fun. 

Title:  Fortran in the new world. 

Location : Athens 

Steve_Lionel
Black Belt Retired Employee
365 Views

The old forum used belt colors as in Karate. You could progress through colors by post count, but Black Belt was reserved for Intel-invited users. In the earlier years, Intel would pay for Black Belts to attend the Intel Developer Forum and there would be a special event where all the Black Belts would have dinner together and get a presentation. That perk disappeared years ago, and the "belt program" discontinued. Those of us with "Black Belt" could keep that designation (I was the first employee to earn it) and we get some extra features (such as being able to start a private message.)

I agree that the new forum titles are absurd.

JohnNichols
Valued Contributor II
356 Views

I agree on the absurd, why do people make life so hard. 

I would think a Fortran conference organized by the Blackbelts would draw a broad audience. 

 

Steve_Lionel
Black Belt Retired Employee
192 Views

Black Belts weren't only for the Fortran forum - there are many others here. It was primarily a funding issue that canceled the meets. There was a claim that there would be "regional" meets, but those never happened. 

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