Re: Need for Intel Fortran without VS integration

DanWin · ‎10-25-2022

Hello All,

I'd like to start discussion here on this sensitive subject for the company and their moderators.

After installing on a snap Linux version of Intel Fortran and failing for 5 days to install Windows one it became clear to me that company needs to issue the additional special version of Windows Fortran which does not require MS Visual Studio integration and which can run either from command prompt or from Intel 's own integrated development environment like some other Fortran compilers do.

Reasons for that are

1) The complexity of integration of different software into VS reached such critical level that not only users can not handle that by themselves anymore, the web help became almost useless, and even our guru-emeritus Steve Lionel now may not help you since this will not look like a retirement for him but like a permanent job

2) Linux version does not have VS integration requirement, and surprise-surprise it not only perfectly lives without VS, it just smiling waving bye-bye to permanently declining presence of Microsoft in the supercomputing top500 list where only one Windows system now left, all others are Linux based.

3) Multi-company products are typically not as solid like their own, different stability issues of this Intel-Microsoft product plaque this integration for decades and clearly time came to stop that useless efforts requiring Windows version to be 100% integrated or it does not work at all. No other team or other manager from either side or both will solve this problem, this is inherent software stability and reliability issue of multi-million line source code projects.

4) Additionally, I read other users complaining that also the Manuals and Guides became useless, not specific, not helpful, bloated. I wasted last days reading them on Windows and failed with all these advises i got here and on the internet while i did not read for Linux installation a single line of text, only couple words with installation of gFortran and the Linux have done all the work for me just remining at the end to run setvars.sh to activate the compiler. Similarly the Linux version of Intel Fortran also required to read just a half a page of text and that's it. Some other Windows Fortran compilers of different companies also have no issues to install, you click blindly and all works in seconds. Fortran means ultimate clarity and simplicity, and when it will lose the aura that it is very intuitive language it will be dead.

jimdempseyatthecove · ‎10-26-2022

It would seem to be a reasonable request to have the Windows installation have a check box (which may be preselected) to indicate if you wish to have integration with Visual Studio or not. Note, selecting "No" may require installing MS VS C Runtime Library to facillitate linking.

Jim Dempsey

Ron_Green · ‎10-26-2022

Points taken. I'll talk to the team about writing up an article on installing the Fortran compiler on Windows with only the Microsoft Build Tools. Some of the information is there, but it admittedly is not well organized.

From Release Notes:

To use command-line tools only to build Intel® 64 architecture applications these versions are supported:
- Microsoft Build Tools* 2022
- Microsoft Build Tools* 2019
- Microsoft Build Tools* 2017

I really do not like vague statements like the above with no further help on WHERE to find the downloads! I think it's a fear of web URLs changing. Valid concern. And no one likes to update docs every year on the whims of external websites that move all the time.

But for Build Tools 2022, here it is:

In a web browser window,

go to https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads/

Scroll down this page and open the "Tools for Visual Studio 2022", 4th section named "Build Tools for Visual Studio 2022" and click Download.

Install the Build Tools

Next, you can download the Fortran Compiler using my article on getting just the Fortran compiler. However, I usually recommend also getting MKL since most of us are calling BLAS or FFTs or sparse solvers of some kind. It also has great random number generators for Monte Carlo algorithm developers. And if you use MPI, grab Intel's MPI while you're at it.

Set the your environment: See this document https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/documentation/fortran-compiler-oneapi-dev-guide-and-reference/top/compiler-setup/use-the-command-line/specifying-the-location-of-compiler-components.html

Scroll down to the Windows section. Read up on using 'setvars.bat'. Now a word of caution - if you also installed MKL and perhaps Intel MPI check that the oneAPI 'setvars.bat' worked and set env for all tools. Easiest way maybe is to echo the PATH env var and/or the LIBPATH or LIB env vars. For example

echo %PATH%

and just for added info:

LIB is for the linker, helps it find import and static libraries.

LIBPATH is for the compiler, helps it find metadata files. Like type libraries, .NET assemblies, WinRT .winmd files.

IF these are NOT set for MKL, or the Compiler, or iMPI you can add that env. Each component has it's one "vars.bat" file. you can run those individually if 'setvars.bat' fails. They are in

<install path>\compiler\latest\env\vars.bat

<install path>\mkl\latest\env\vars.bat

<install path>\mpi\latest\env\vars.bat

Disclaimer: I rarely use Windows. I have not tested this but will do so today, once I find my PC. It's somewhere on a shelf in the closet. I'll probably have a few hours of MS updates to install first. I'll run through this process and if it's solid I'll write it up and talk to our documentation person about adding it to the product docs.

And yes, Steve "Doctor Fortran" needs to enjoy his retirement and travel instead of responding to installation issues.

Keep up with all the latest from the Intel Fortran team by following me on Twitter @iCompilersRon

Ron Green #IAmIntel

MWind2 · ‎10-26-2022

I just tested the 17.3.6 Build Tools and 2022.3 install on a hyperv virtual w10pro and it's all good.

DanWin · ‎10-27-2022

MWind2,

You are lucky man finally! Given the fact how such installation goes you had a chance 1/100 to push randomly correct choice and win.

But your idea about HyperV is probably great one. The only worry is that virtual hardware is not connected directly to the OS, the priority always go to the original OS. Can you please go to Polyhedron website comparing most of existing compilers and run couple tests with parallelization ? I worry that this could be a bottleneck for the virtual machine. I have such problem with Linux VM on Windows OS.

jimdempseyatthecove · ‎10-26-2022

Thanks, Ron for the comprehensive response. Perhaps your posting should be included as part of the README.

Jim Dempsey

JohnNichols · ‎10-26-2022

Interesting points. I have used supercomputers in my daily life. They are not for the average user.

It is also better from a human perspective to make a reasoned argument and avoid the statements that tend to give rise to argumentative feelings in the person reading the note.

I monitor bridges in a lot of places, we use Intel NUCS for all of the work on site and Intel Fortran for a significant part of it off site.

You cannot run an Intel NUC with LINUX remotely and have a ethernet device plugged into the NUC, LINUX disconnects one or the other. I spent three years trying to solve that little problem with the University Linux experts. They all said easy and then failed.

We live in a world that is coming out of the computer dark ages, so they will be stumbling around and Side A will fight Side B, at least now we have put away the armour and horses and merely use words on the Internet, which can be just as harsh.

The people here spend their days just answering simple questions, it is free, like all free things it is what it is.

So have a nice day.

DanWin · ‎10-27-2022

Ron,

Please go through the every step of installation. Better even would be to make a video for Youtube. Your current notes leave too much freedom to make a mistake because too many warnings come out of the system when you install these components. This is not clean install without VS, it is still VS stripped down install

Installation permanently complains that VS components are missing, and even what you just installed is also missing and hence nothing will be installed correctly. There are also confusing items in the list dated by same day by 50-100x different in size sometimes. Same Fortran compiler listed by the build of the same date but one is around 10 MB while another 500 ! Installation failed again.

None of these installation steps take place for Linux versions of both gFortran and iFort. No VS will be installed if you choose so in all other compilers in the world but not Intel one. Make for Windows EXACTLY the same installation like for Linux with exactly the same components like OpenMP, MPI, MKL

Though we all have sometimes such sin, but you are really the bravest programmer in the history of computing by admitting in the largest sin of giving suggestions for Windows installations while Windows computer collecting dust in the garage for years. ROTF LOL