Core i7 950 Temperature Problems

[idata]

I purchased a new upgrade from a Core2Quad setup last week and since building my new i7 950 setup, have been having several problems. My main worry/issue however is that my CPU seems to be running at quite high temps. Im taking Tcase temperatures of 40 - 45c on idle and anything from 65 - 70c on load/stress testing (Actual Core temperatures can be around 45c on idle and 80c on load). I've tried 3 alternative coolers, with ArticSilver5 thermal paste and the high temperatures persist. Coolers used are the Titan Fenrir, Akasa Tower and another which i have now lost in the madness i call my office.

Is there any chance at all that i may have a calibration issue with my temperature sensors?

I understand that there are many factors to consider here which may be causing the issue, so please let me know what details you require in order to assist with the situation.

Nothing has been overclocked except for the RAM which was purchased overclocked at 1600mhz. This however, i have set to 1066 for the sake of the current situation.

Room temperatures are quite low, it is winter in the UK at the moment after all, and i have tried blowing cold air into the case directly but to no avail.

Out of the many parts i purchased from Aria, most of them appear to be faulty/damaged in some way. I've really bad some major bad luck this time and i'm looking for answers from anyone who can help really! Especially as Aria will not allow me to take anything back without hard evidence AND without me completely dismantling my PC in order to take parts back.

I'm reading my temperatures from BIOS and using HWmonitor, which shows that everything is in the correct spec'd ranges. (Voltage/Watts Etc)

Disabling HT shaves off around 5-10c, however i'de prefer this to be enabled.

I know i'de be expecting way too much for my i7 temperatures to be around the same as my Core2Quad's, as i know the i7 chips run hotter than the Core2 chips. But even i know that these temperatures, especially as my CPU is not overclocked, are quite high.

Many thanks in advance

[idata]

OMGosh, Thank You for that comment, that really means something to me coming from you (that would be the first comment, not the second )

Doc, the secret to eliminating (ya can't stop it) condensation, is gale force winds from multiple fans, from every direction, but that works best in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, ya know, the desert. Did you see this PC case, it's actually to much even for me... well, maybe...

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=652&Itemid=61 http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=652&Itemid=61

I also recommend kitty litter for unhousebroken projects. I used to dream about some sort of electronic or freon-based cooling for electronics, but then I became aware of the condensation problem. Of course you could dive right in like Cray did, with the computer circuit boards submerged in some kind of non-conducting fluid for cooling, as I recall. I heard they prototyped them in aquariums.

Your story reminds me of the OCing contests I've seen, where they use liquid Nitrogen on the CPUs, and the mother boards are all wrapped up in towels and plumbers putty to keep them from shorting out. And you think we're lunatics, HA! I'm joking, those people put me to shame, they are really something.

Liquid cooling just worries me, but I know Gifford is a believer and user of that, I wonder if he has any interesting stories about it. My brother likes to one-up me, but I've left him behind in the PC world lately, so I'm expecting him to come up with something like that soon.

Hey, I'm an expert at chipping away ice, born in Chicago and live about 30 miles west of the city now. I can just barely see my mailbox after that last storm, and that was nothing compared to the east coast.

I better enjoy this luv-fest as long as I can, because some of my friends over in the "i7 Sandy Bridge Recall" thread are waiting for me... I'm not in the mood.

[idata]

I just have to say, to the lot of you, thanks. I have a Coolermaster Hyper212 Plus coming in because of my paranoia, because I'm pulling regularly 67~75c under only 40% max load, and didn't even let prime95 run anymore after the CPU hit 80c and was still climbing. The paranoia is because I've had more than a few computers give up the magic smoke, and this computer (i7 850, Asus Sabertooth x58, Corsair 750 80% Silver, 12gb Corsair rame, MSI GeForce 560) was just put together and the last thing I want to do is burn yet ANOTHER computer.

It's nice to know that I'm not running too dangerously hot at the moment-- and I should be running much cooler, if everything I've heard about the CM H212+ performance on a i7 950 is true (60-65c on 100%).

So, just wanted to say danke for the peace of mind for the next few days till the HSF comes in

[idata]

Hi,

Are we talking about the same temperatures here all the time? Some people refer to their CPU temperature in a blanket manner and from reading it is not clear to me whether they talk about their hottest core or about the CPU-temp. I read in another thread that core temperatures do not matter, and that when talking about the max limit of 67,9 degrees celsius for the i7950 refers to the CPU-temp and not the cores temp.

Many people just like me are probably buying fans and re-seating their aftermarket heatsinks in order to cope with cores above 70degrees, while the CPU-temp is barely 60. Are we wrong to do this?

I wonder if someone who knows their way around the thermal situation of the i7950 could explain briefly what values we should monitor?

Thanks!

[idata]

guermantes, That is a fair observation and question, and yes it is not clear what temps are being referred to. While it would be best to discuss a specific parameter, both CPU and core temperatures usually vary rather quickly. The other question is does it matter. You didn't specifically mention (I assume) that with core i7-900 series CPUs, the core temps usually are (reported) as much as 10C above the "CPU temperature". The realities of how the core and CPU temps are determined are beyond me (I have noticed the Sandy Bridge CPU I use reports Core and CPU temps that are essentially equivalent, the CPU temp being that of the highest core temp at any given moment) but a few things I have noticed IMO make the differences a moot point.

When running CPU stress test programs such as Linpack, that as the CPU approaches and reaches 100% usage, the core and CPU temps are equal, and I mean across the board, and stay that way. If the CPU is overheating, it will throttle itself down for protection, including shutting down if necessary. IMO it makes no difference which temperature, core or CPU, is causing it, it happens and should happen. During non-stress testing usage, the individual core temps in my experience are dancing all over the place, up and down, depending upon usage, and won't activate CPU throttling if one core passes the CPU temperature limit momentarily.

So your question being which temperatures to focus upon becomes IMO more personal than practical. Your point that we should state which temps we are referring to is important, and in my case I will be referencing CPU rather than core temperatures. AFAIK, CPU throttling is triggered by CPU rather than an individual core temperature.

[DSilv11]

The industry standard for specified the operational temperature of an IC is Tcase max.

This is the operational temperature measured on the surface of the component which the component install as it is intended to be used.

For years you had to build or buy a special heat sink with a thermal probe mounted in to check processor and system cooling.

Then some bright engineer came up with using a thermal diode in the processor to report the internal temperature so that the user had a quick and easy way to tell if the cpu was running too hot.

The problem is the Industry standard is still Tcase max and the accurcy of the internal therimal probe is good, but not a calibrated value.

This resulted in all the processor specification calling out Tcase max and all the users software reporting Tcore for which there is not specification.

You can think of a processor like a camp fire. The closer you get to the fire, the warmer it feels. But the heat being output is the same regardlee if your standing in the fire (core) or out in the woods (case) looking at the fire.

The physical separation between core and case and heat dissipation into the case & heat sink causes the processor temperature to be higher in the core than the case by some amount that is dependant on the materials and efficiency of the heat sink.

I have found that in most systems the difference is about 10 degrees C. I have measured some that are as good as 3 degrees difference.

So, (getting long winded again)

When people talk about CPU temperature it is rare to find someone with a thermal probe mounted heat sink reporting a true Tcase reading.

Every one reports Tcore and with multi core processors, you can have several degrees differences between cores in the same package.

Bottom line:

Tcore is just a helpful indicator. Tcase is the specification.

But if you can keep Tcore close to or below Tcase max, your processor will not be too hot. (and cooler than needed never hurts anything*)

*see above

[idata]

It wants extra cooling.

[idata]

Hi,

i've a i7 950 on asus sabertooth x58 with stock cooler in idle 54° celsius and in full (prim95) 97°!!! I reseated the cooler few times and try some thermal compound but with no effect. I tried a Thermalright ultra-120 extreme rt 1366 rev.c and idle temp is 50° and full is 83° and i believe is too hot.

My case is an enermax hoplite with a frontal fan and a fan on rear. I've tried to add some addictional fan but nothing is changed.

Motherboard temp is 50° and Northbirdge 58°. Ambient temp is around 30°.

I've talked with thermalright support and after long tests they have told me that cpu is probably defective. I've passed successfully intel processor diagnostic tool.

These hot temps are strange... what can i do?

[idata]

Fabio, You may have noticed in this thread that I have very similar basic hardware, although I have an i7-930. Your CPU temps seem high, but we need to verify a few things first, before declaring a defective CPU, which is very unusual.

What kind of settings do you have in your BIOS related to the CPU? Are things on Auto, or do you have CPU voltage set to a specific value? Do you have EIST (Speed Step) and C-States enabled? Is BCLK increased from 133MHz? Is your CPU over clocked? The very small change is temperature after changing to the Thermalright CPU cooler is strange, that should of made a big difference IMO.

Your mother board temp is rather high too, which is a clue. Note that my SaberT X58 temp is 20C lower than yours. You mention your Enermax case, which caught my attention. I'm a fan of fans, really a fan-natic, and if you ever saw my box of fans, you'd know that is true. Enermax fans are really quiet... because in my experience they don't move much air at all. I was surprised how weak they are in that aspect, compared to cheap 120mm fans. If the air inside your case is warm, say 40C, your CPU will never be below that temp, as the air the CPU cooler is working with is above your room temperature by a significant amount. In that environment, a CPU will be at least 5 - 10C higher in temperature, which is what we are seeing.

I looked at your case, and it's large and has plenty of potential ventilation. I suggest mounting two 140mm fans in the top of that case, and get some air moving through that case! The more fans, the merrier IMO, although you will sacrifice the quiet PC thing.

Next question, what is your video card setup? High performance cards add more heat to a case than a CPU does. If that hot air remains in the case, you can't expect any temperature to be less than the environment the hardware lives and works in.

As they say, the devil is in the details, and all the details matter.

[idata]

Hi Parsec,

all parameters are in default, auto. Only thing i've setted is X.M.P profil for my Corsair XSM3 1600 mhz for evitate 1066Mhz.

My case situation is this:

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/dscf0289g.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/dscf0289g.jpg/][IMG]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2237/dscf0289g.jpg http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2237/dscf0289g.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Full configuration of pc:

Cpu: Intel i7 950 @ 3,06 Ghz

Motherboard: Asus Sabertooth X58

GPU: Sapphire hd5770 1 gb ddr5 Vapor-X

Sound: Creative Audigy ZS 2

HDD: 2x Western digital caviar black 1 tb sata 6 gbs

1x Samsung eco green f3 1,5 tb

DVD-RW: Asus 24B3ST

Case: Enermax Hoplite

PSU: Enermax Noise Taker II 600w

C-state are disabled (default) only C1E is enabled, Speed Step is enabled, turbo is enabled to, HT also.

Vcore is auto and in idle is 0,94v in full load is 1,23v.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/tempsva.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/tempsva.jpg/][IMG]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/869/tempsva.jpg http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/869/tempsva.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

These temps are with stock cooler.

Adding a fan on the left side panel of the case mb temp drops down of 10 12 degrees but cpu remains the same.

Ambient temp now are 30 degrees celsius.

[idata]

Ok, I checked out your pics of the screens. So you CPU is in the 50's C when EIST is engaged (running at 1600 MHz) at 3.9% CPU usage, stock cooler, Vcore of 0.93, CPU power of 6.23 Watts. Some people would say that is Ok with the stock cooler, but I wouldn't be happy with that. Using the XMP profile for your memory at 1600 will raise the CPU temp a bit, but not more than a few degrees at most. If you are not using it, I would disable Virtualization in the BIOS, which will also help a little. The more current versions of the BIOS for this mother board have a setting specifically for the model of CPU, check that yours is set correctly.

I just can't tell you that your CPU is bad, since I really do not know. I've never seen or heard of that before, a CPU running warm due to a flaw within it. I can see why you think so.

Your video card is in the lower PCI-E slot, away from the CPU. While it is a very good card, it is not an ultimate graphics card that also needs multiple fans or liquid cooling due to it's 300 watt power dissipation. When your '5770 is not being stressed by gaming, it should not be putting out much heat. The added side fan is helping to keep the mother board cooler, but that's it. I notice your Samsung HDD is in the mid 40's C while it is right next to the front fan, or is it in that box-like case across from the power supply, which I assume is a drive bay? That bay and your HDDs mounted next to the front fan block it's air flow, as is the case in most PC cases. The temp of that HDD seems a bit high and may be indicating low air flow.

About all I can tell you is this. IMO, only one intake and one exhaust fan is not enough for an i7-900 series CPU PC. You really need to move some air through that case, which it has the potential to do. The case for my SaberT X58/i7-930 PC, a Cooler Master, has three 200mm fans (yes, 200mm), one if front, one on the top, and one on the side, a 140mm fan on the bottom of the case pulling air in from the bottom, and a 120mm at the top rear. In my experience, using one or more fans mounted in the top of a case, pulling air out of the case makes a big difference. If you have extra fans just mount them in that case and see if it helps, which it should. I also mount my CPU cooler so the fan blows upward and the top fan(s) act as the exhaust.

Another thing that might help a bit is mounting the CPU cooler so the heat pipes are oriented in a horizontal direction, in your pic they are in the vertical direction. Sounds weird I know, but I have read this several times in reviews of CPU coolers, and with many of them it makes a difference of about 3 - 5C.

What do you use for fan speed control on that PC? Do you use the ASUS program provided with the board, called Fan Xpert? If not, you should install that, start it up and run the "fan calibration" function for a PWM CPU fan that it has. After that, select the Turbo profile for the CPU fan. Study how that profile looks, and then you can switch to the User profile, which you can modify to provide even more aggressive fan speeds if you want to. This works only with PWM controlled, four pin/wire fans, which the stock cooler uses. When you changed coolers and the CPU temp only dropped a few degrees, that has me wondering how your fan speed control is set up. If your new cooler has a three pin fan, I believe it will run at full speed if plugged into the four pin header. If you have a three pin CPU cooling fan connected to the Chassis fan headers on the mother board, you'll likely need to disable the fan control on those header so the fan runs at full speed.

Another thing you can do that is a lot of work is take the mother board out of the case, and set up the PC outside of a case, run it like that, and see what your temps are.

In trying to identify the heat sources in your PC, the only thing left is the power supply (PS). With the PC running and the side removed, does the top of the PS feel just warm, or hot? If it is hot, is it's fan running?

If all of this does nothing for your CPU temps, you could try to return it, but as I said I just can't say that your CPU is defective. This series of CPUs do run warm, but I have never heard of a CPU running overly hot due to a defect. That does not mean it can't happen.

[idata]

Hi, i'll try to add some fans on the top and in the side and watching what happens. I've tried to disable X.M.P but nothing is changed. In my bios the cpu is recognized correctly as i7 950. I can't disable Virtualization i'm a computer science student and i work with different virtual machines concurrently.

Yes in the front there is a bay for hdds and is a bit hot. PSU is not very hot the fan runs very high rpm (2000) and is noisy. I've tried to install cpu cooler in horizontal direction with no effect. I have installed fan Xpert but as you told 3 pin fan in the 4 pin cpu header th fan runs at 1600 rpm max fixed. With stock cooler (i'm using it now) the fan change rpm with temp but is often over 1800 rpm in full is on 2400 rpm.

I've tried to open all panel of the case life, right, top etc but temps dropped down of 3-4 C.

I've send TRUE 120 in rma but i don't believe is the cause. If there is the possibility to change CPU cooler do you recommend someone?

There is the possibility that motherboard or cpu are defective but in my experience if there is some defect in these components the pc doesn't boot up. I believe it's strange a defect warming cpu but all is possible.