(Bug) VideoProcessing enabled by default only on Intel's discrete Arc cards during video playback.

[NikosD]

Hello.

Another technically deep and specific issue with Intel's drivers that will need to be raised to Video Engineers.

I was running a few playback performance benchmarks using various HEVC and VP9 clips with Intel Hardware like Core i7 8700 (Coffee Lake GT2 iGPU – UHD 630) and newer Iris Xe iGPU (Tigerlake GT2) from Core i5 1135G7.

The tool I used is the famous DXVA Checker v4.6.0 application.

Both iGPUs have zero VideoProcessing utilization while normal Playback and during Playback performance (benchmark mode)

But when I used the Intel’s Arc A380 discrete GPU using the same clips and same decoders MF HEVC (D3D11), MF VP9 (D3D11), LAV (DXVA2 for both HEVC/VP9) and even SW decoder LAV (SW) I always see a huge utilization of VideoProcessing value ~85% in Playback performance mode, dropping the speed of decoding and the speed overall– a lot.

Even normal playback of Arc A380 uses a lot of VideoProcessing power, dropping the performance of Arc A380 lower than Iris Xe and even UHD 630 iGPUs when iGPUs use fast dual-channel RAM.

This is ridiculous for Intel.

Pure video decoding (not playback) is a lot faster for Arc A380, of course.

QUESTION:

Are there any hidden VideoProcessing parameters enabled by default in the driver and how could I disable them ?

It seems that only Arc discrete cards have them enabled by default.

Intel's Arc control and Intel Graphics Command Center (Beta) do not expose Video Processing settings/ parameters in order to disable them. I tried them both.

It is very important and mandatory for users to be able to disable video parameters that trigger Video Processing that could affect video decoding performance even for discrete cards.

A user should be able to disable ALL video processing parameters in the drivers.

Thanks in advance!

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello NikosD, 

Thank you for posting in the communities. Kindly please allow us to investigate this properly for you by coordinating with our team. I promise to get back to you as soon as possible.

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello NikosD, 

Thank you for patiently waiting. Our team is actively investigating this for you. We do want to ask the following details to further speed up the investigation: 

1. Please share with us the steps you have taken before encountering the bug or screenshots of the issue you have experienced. You may also share a short recording so we can check it for you. 
2. When you did the testing did you disable the iGPU of your system or is it on a hybrid setup (discrete + iGPU) 
3. Please share with us the SSU logs of your system where the Arc GPU is installed. This will allow us to be more familiar with your configuration and check for possible errors. 

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician

[NikosD]

Hello Ramyer.

I think I was misunderstood a little.

First of all my tests and benchmarks were done on three different systems.

My system has Core i7 9700 with Arc A380 and iGPU always disabled.

On a different desktop system, I did the iGPU tests with Core i7 8700 with iGPU enabled obviously and no discrete cards in the system.

And Tigerlake Core i5 1135G7 was used in a laptop of course, with no discrete cards.

So, three different measurements on three different systems using only discrete card (A380) with no iGPU or only iGPUs (8700, 1135G7) with no discrete cards.

Moreover, as I said above, I used a specific software called DXVA Checker in order to measure the performance of hardware/software video decoding and video playback of those three different systems using various codecs.

There are a lot of guides out there to see how is this doable.

But it doesn't matter, as this is just one way to expose the use of video filtering during video playback of Arc A380 and no use of video filtering during video playback of iGPUs.

The video developers could do it using different tools and methodologies and probably you as Intel have proprietary tools to measure such things.

After these results of DXVA Checker I did this post in order to ask the video developers if they enable by default deep inside the drivers some video filtering and do not expose those settings to users (using Arc control or/and Intel Graphics Command Center (Beta)) so users could disable them.

I hope it's clear now.

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello NikosD

Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in response and thank you for sharing additional information. For now kindly allow me to coordinate this further with our team and I promise to get back to you as soon as possible.

Ramyer M.

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[AlfredoS_Intel]

Hi Nikosd,

Thank you for waiting for our update.

First, I would like to clarify that the "VideoProcessing" is actually a report of the utilization of the Video Enhancement (VE) engine found within the GPU's media acceleration engines and it is often interfaced through the Intel® Video Processing Library (VPL).

The reason why newer GPUs actually show higher utilization on "VideoProcessing" is because Intel provides a software library so that ISVs can utilize the hardware acceleration of video decode/procession/encode from our GPU's Media Engine. However, ISVs are responsible of correctly integrating these features. Currently, the library Intel offers for this purpose is the Intel® Video Processing Library (VPL).

 So, the main difference of recent Intel GPUs vs older ones is that newer ones rely on the Intel VPL, while older ones use the Intel Media SDK. So, it possible the tool this customer is using correctly implemented the Intel Media SDK, but it still hasn't fully implemented the Intel VPL.

You can refer to these sites for more info:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/tools/vpl/overview.html#gs.bk5cbj

https://github.com/intel/libvpl/

https://github.com/Intel-Media-SDK/MediaSDK

We look forward to your feedback regarding our post.

Best Regards,

Alfred S

Intel® Customer Support Technician

[NikosD]

Hello Alfredo.

The issue raised up here by me is something different than what you describe.

The real problem is the fact that this tool uses the simplest form of playback, without any video processing enabled by default - VPL or MSDK.

That's why is not a matter of more video processing versus less.

The iGPUs have z e r o video processing during playback while Intel Arc has around ~85 % Video Processing during the exact same method of playback for the same clip.

It's not a matter of more or less video processing - something around video processing is ON and working during Arc's playback and is OFF and not working during iGPU's playback - for the same simplest way of video playback, designed to have the least interference during playback.

The result is obvious during playback, which drops a lot the performance between pure video decoding (without renderer and without displaying frames) and normal video playback.

Something triggers the Video Processing Engine to interfere during normal video playback using Arc, but not using iGPU.

Are you saying that this behavior appears only using this tool ?

I have seen the same struggle during normal video playback without turning on any Video Processing features in the driver for Arc A380, using different Video Players/ Tools.

That's why I think the issue is something deeper and general, probably inside the driver.

BR,

Nikos

[AlfredoS_Intel]

Hi Nikosd,

Thank you providing your feedback.

Please allow us some time to check on this.

We will get back to you as soon as we have updates.

Best Regards,

Alfred S

Intel Customer Support Technician

[AlfredoS_Intel]

Hi Nikosd,

Thank you for waiting for our update.

If you can confirm that the decoding is done through either VPL or MSDK, then on ARC GPUs and newer hardware the VideoProcessing will in fact be utilized and this is expected behavior.

We look forward to your feedback regarding our post.

Best Regards,

Alfred S

Intel Customer Support Technician

[NikosD]

Hello Alfred.

Thank you for the confirmation of my initial post - at last!

Albeit, unfortunately, the VideoProcessing is ALWAYS ON on Arc GPUS as I said at that initial post.

It doesn't matter if the app (player/ decoder) uses MSDK or VPL or anything else

You can try ANY MediaPlayer like MPC-HC (which uses internally LAV decoder) to see the VideoProcessing enabled in simple playback.

LAV VideoDecoder uses directly DXVA2/ D3D11 video decoding modes - not MSDK or VPL.

Moreover, I have to say that I used DXVA Checker as an app that measures video decoding performance in FPS (Frames Per Second) that also has metrics for VideoProcessing and Video decoding procedures.

Like % utilization.

But you can also use just Windows Task Manager and see in the Performance section of the app the VideoProcessing utilization to be ALWAYS very high compared to Video decoding using any video decoder and any clip - without using MSDK or VPL.

At least on my A380 the VideoProcessing is ALWAYS around 60% more than video decoding, during simple playback.

So my new questions for you and your team of Video Engineers are:

1) What exact video processing feature is used by default on Arc GPUs and newer ?

It seems heavy on A380.

2) Is Intel going to give users the option to disable the baked-in driver VideoProcessing features ?

Especially on weaker hardware like A380 this SHOULD BE AN OPTION FOR THE USER.

The last question is my main point from the beginning of this issue that I called a BUG.

Users must have the option to disable features that they don't want, that are heavy on the GPU - especially on the weaker models.

BR,

Nikos

[AlfredoS_Intel]

Hi Jamesg89,

Thank you for your response and providing more details regarding the issue,

We will continue checking this and the information that provided is invaluable to us.

Please allow us some time to check on this. We hope for your understanding regarding this

We will get back to you no later than 3 business days from now.

Best Regards,

Alfred S

Intel Customer Support Technician

[NikosD]

Hello Alfred,

I'm afraid your previous reply should be placed at a different post, because you mentioned me as "Jamesg89" and it was a little generic.

You don't seem to reply to my previous post, which had some specific questions.

BR,

Nikos

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello NikosD, 

Apologies for the incorrect mention. I assure you that my colleague is referring to this thread, as we have coordinated with our engineering team. Please see below for the answers to your additional questions:

1. What exact video processing feature is used by default on Arc GPUs and newer ?
   1. We want to inform you that Intel does not enforce the use of any features from the media engine. Each ISV (Independent Software Vendor) can choose which features to implement in their software and how to do so.
2. Is Intel going to give users the option to disable the baked-in driver Video Processing features?
   1. Currently, there is no baked-in Video Processing feature in the driver. It is entirely part of the media engine, which is accessible by ISVs (Independent Software Vendors).

I hope this answers you questions. Let us know if you have additional questions and we will be there to assist you. 

Ramyer M. 

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[NikosD]

Hello Ramyer.

Thank you for your reply but I don't think you have been following the conversation so far with Alfred.

In his previous reply before the incorrect mention, we have concluded using his own words:

"If you can confirm that the decoding is done through either VPL or MSDK, then on ARC GPUs and newer hardware the VideoProcessing will in fact be utilized and this is expected behavior."

From there I replied that VideoProcessing is not utilized only when the decoding is done through either VPL or MSDK, but also when using direct DXVA2/D3D11 decoding.

So, I was expecting Alfred or someone else to provide more details what exact VideoProcessing is utilized on Arc GPUs and newer that is not available on previous hardware.

And the second question was regarding the issue of user options  - if you are going to provide the user the option to disable it.

Because we have agreed that some VideoProcessing is ALWAYS ON - for Arc GPUs and newer hardware - when using MSDK or VPL, as Alfred said - and this is expected behavior according to Alfred, or ALWAYS ON regardless of video decoding API as my tests show clearly to me.

If no VideoProcessing is always on during any kind of video playback and you have to explicitly use some video processing by yourself, then please explain me the VideoProcessing utilization of Task Manager performance report of the Arc GPU, during any kind of playback - even the simplest one without using any VideoProcessing filtering of any Media Player.

Because there must be a way to play a video file, locally or on-line without using any kind of VideoProcessing filtering using Arc GPUs.

Right?

Please do some tests and give me an option, give me a software configuration using any media player you want and any driver settings you want, in order to see minimal (if not zero VideoProcessing utilization) while playing a video file using my Intel Arc A380, like when using Intel's iGPUs or any other discrete GPU from AMD and nVIdia which have actually zero VideoProcessing utilization when no user selected VideoProcessing is used.

BR,

Nikos

[RamyerM_Intel]

Hello NikosD

My apologies for overlooking this statement. Let me make it up to you by coordinating with our engineers. While I would love to give you a direct answer, it is best to have our engineering team review the information you posted to ensure we cover everything thoroughly. 

Ramyer M.

Intel Customer Support Technician 

[Esteban_Intel]

Hi @NikosD,

Please let me clarify on this: the video processing hardware (just like the media encoding and decoding hardware) and its related driver and API functions are always enabled and cannot be disabled. However, it's up to each software developer to choose whether or not they want to implement and take advantage of these hardware acceleration features, just use the pure software solutions or implement both and let the user decide. Take for example Handbrake, which lets the user chose between the Intel QSV (hardware accelerated) and regular software-based encoding.

[NikosD]

Hello Esteban and thank you for your reply.

I'm afraid you haven't understood the issue, what exactly is the problem, so I would suggest to read again very carefully my previous posts if you want to participate and reply again.

BR,

Nikos

[Esteban_Intel]

@NikosD let me clarify by replying to your questions directly:

1) What exact video processing feature is used by default on Arc GPUs and newer ?

No video processing feature is used by default by any Intel GPU. The GPUs offer hardware acceleration of video processing, encoding and decoding. But it is the software developer who choses and decides if they want to leverage the power of these hardware accelerated features and implement them into their software (via MediaSDK or VPL) or not. So, if you want to understand which video processing hardware accelerated features from an Intel GPU are implemented and used on a specific software, you will need to contact the developer of that software (including DXVA Checker), as only they can know what they decided to implement.

2) Is Intel going to give users the option to disable the baked-in driver VideoProcessing features ?

Video processing, encoding and decoding hardware accelerated features cannot be turned off. These features are not used by default and Intel doesn't force any software developer to use them. These features are provided as a way to leverage the GPU hardware to accelerate functions that would otherwise need to be implemented via pure software (which is generally slower). However, it's up to the software developer to choose if they want to leverage the hardware accelerated features, go with the pure software implementation or do both and let the user decide. Only the developer of each software (including DXVA checker) has the power to choose what they implement and whether or not they will let the user turn of some of the functions they chose to implement.