Re: Request: Solution to hdmi external display lag on Optimus laptops with Intel UHD 630/GTX 1060.

pmehr4 · ‎06-04-2020

I have a MSI GP73 8RE leopard laptop with Intel UHD 630/GTX1060 optimus switchable graphics. HW specifics in end of post. The problem I encounter has been widely known around on forums for over a year with no solution as far as i can find googling. The issue is NOT MSI specific but applies to other optimus equipped laptops as well. MSI is obviously aware of the issue as it is listed in FAQ with a provided workaround with an old intel driver, which no longer works as of june 2020. I am suprised neither intel or Nvidia has acknowledged the issue and provided a solution to this problem which has been around since right after Intel Graphics Driver version 23.20.16.4939.

Problem description: The problem is when using an external monitor/display in "second screen only" over HDMI. Occurs with all HDMI cables. When using second display only (external only, turning off laptop display or closing lid) system lag and stuttering occurs on the active external display. Menues lag, the spinning nvidia logo in the drivers lag, video, windows etc. Basicly the entire display has extreme stuttering and lag, and it occurs in everything I do. When both displays are active (cloned), the problem disappears. The HDMI port is directly connected to the Nvidia gtx 1060, which makes the workaround kind of odd since it hints that this is a issue with Intel UHD 630. All drivers are latest editions.

Current workaround: There is currently only one workaround, which is to enter device manager in Windows, and disable the Intel UHD 630, and then reactivate it. This consistently removes the issue until next boot or the display is disconnected and reconnected. MSI provided another workaround may 2019 which was to revert to Intel driver 23.20.16.4939 and disable automatic updating. This driver does no longer work. Link provided. I've been waiting patiently for a driver update which solves this issue but i'm getting tired and pissed after having to use the workaround now for ages. A solution must be found.

System hardware:

Intel Core i7-8750H

BGA1440

16 GB 2666mhz ram

Intel UHD Graphics 630 (Driver Version: 27.20.100.8280)

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6 gb (driver version: 446.14)

Windows 10 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 18362) (18362.19h1_release.190318-1202)

MSI troubleshoot workaround (no longer works, driver gives black video on decoding): https://www.msi.com/faq/nb-3517.html

Leonardo_C_Intel · ‎06-10-2020

Hello pmehr4

Thank you for posting in the Intel Community.

Looking into the information that you have shared I am noticing that you are using the Intel UHD Graphics 630 (Driver Version: 27.20.100.8280) in a hybrid graphics system, this driver is a generic driver that does not include the driver customizations that the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in you case MSI* and it is highly recommended in hybrid systems to use the OEM drivers that include these customizations, I would recommend trying those (see link below).

in regard to the lag behavior on the system is important to take in consideration that hybrid graphics systems (laptops) are highly customized by each OEM depending on their system design and features, and one of the first steps to report and investigate performance issues is the manufacturer (MSI*) if during the testing they determine that the issue is related to Intel® hardware they should be able to with intel on it.

MSI* drivers:

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/support/GP73-Leopard-8RE#down-driver&Win10%2064

Regards,

Leonardo C.

Intel Customer Support Technician

pmehr4 · ‎06-15-2020

Hi again and thanks for the reply. I have earlier used the OEM drivers, when I got the laptop. The issue was there then also. I did however try again now with both Intel and Nvidia OEM drivers provided by MSI in the link you provided. The issue with extreme lag still persists as it was before, the issue is therefore not with driver customization. The only workaround is to disable Intel UHD 630 in device manager, and enable it again. As far as I know the optimus switchable graphics is also an Nvidia tech and not msi specific. It's worth noting that when I google this, it seems this issue is reported with multiple systems with Intel UHD 630 and different Nvidia cards in optimus configuration. I will contact MSI with this as they are already aware of the issue, but i doubt this issue will get solved by them as i'm pretty sure it is a intel/nvidia issue and not specific for msi laptops.

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=external+display+lag+optimus&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Leonardo_C_Intel · ‎06-15-2020

Hello pmehr4

Thank you for the response, please keep in mind that each Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) would have access the technologies (Intel® or NVIDIA®) for them to customized and integrate on their system design, if the systems are having performance issues it is recommended to reach the OEM first to investigate it.

Regards,

Leonardo C.

Intel Customer Support Technician

Leonardo_C_Intel · ‎06-15-2020

Hello pmehr4

Thank you for the response, please keep in mind that each Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) would have access the technologies (Intel® or NVIDIA®) for them to customized and integrate on their system design, if the systems are having performance issues it is recommended to reach the OEM first to investigate it.

Regards,

Leonardo C.

Intel Customer Support Technician

NicolaiS · ‎09-29-2020

I did experience the exact same issues, just with my lenovo X1 Extreme Gen1 Model: (20MF).
Many of my colleages with the same laptop has this issue as well, even with lenovo X1 Extreme Gen2 as well.

The current only solution is to restart the machine or to disable and enable the pnpdevice.

We have updated with the newest OEM Intel UHD driver without luck. version 27.20.100.8587

I have tried with the newest intel UHD driver as well from intel website, 27.20.100.8681

I do think Intel should consider it to be their problem as well, since so many different models have this issue.

Specs:

Model: 20MF000XMD

i7-8750H

GTX 1050 ti max-Q design

Bios 1.31

Windows 10 build 1909

Intel UHD 630, lastest tried with 27.20.100.8681 from intel webpage. (have tried with latest OEM version too)

pmehr4 · ‎10-08-2020

Good to see I'm not the only one struggeling. I have contacted both MSI and Nvidia on this, still awaiting reply. However, since the workaround is focused on the Intel UHD 630 and MSI's workaround was reverting to an old intel driver, I belive the problem to be of Intel origin. It's sad, but not suprising, to see that intel only blames the OEM without further investigation. I have a feeling that MSI and Nvidia will no exacly the same, and none of the companies will take responsebility and investigate this issue. We can only hope.

pmehr4 · ‎10-14-2020

Hi again. Have done extensive testing now and found something interesting. (copy paste as i sent this to nvidia and MSI in our correspondanse) Using HWinfo64 and monitoring GPU usage in different scenarios I think I have found something causing the problem. Since the laptop has Nvidia Optimus switchable graphics, different GPU's are used for different tasks. As you already know, the Intel UHD630 is connected directly to the internal laptop display. GTX 1060 renders frames for games/3D but the UHD630 draws them on screen (internal) as far as i know.

With external monitor connected, both DP and HDMI ports are however directly connected to the GTX 1060 according to the NVIDIA control panel, as far as i know, the discreet GTX card should then take over all rendering (including windows aero/dekstop) leaving the Intel UHD630 idle in the background (or at least supposed to).

Non faulty state on external monitor (pictures 1 and 2): Watching GPU and GPU video engine usage with pc working properly in a non-faulty state, I see that all rendering is done by NVIDIA GTX 1060 as some load is put on GPU, and while watching a 4k or 8k video on youtube i can see the "GPU video engine load" peaks to 32% - 85% on NVIDIA GTX card. A lot of the values like decoding, gpu core etc indicates all rendering of windows desktop, video, etc is done on the NVIDIA card. Values for the Intel UHD630 "Media engine usage" are 0% (idle), same with the core.

Faulty state with system lag on external monitor (pictures 3 and 4): When the laptop is in the faulty state with extreme stuttering, the different GPU values are completely changed, indicating that the Intel UHD630 is still trying to do the rendering for windows desktop and other applications. Now the Nvidia GTX "GPU video engine load" is at 0%, no changes in values on other parameters. The intel UHD 630 however, now shows 81.5% load on "GPU media engine usage", the same values it shows when the laptop internal screen is used.

So it's kind of like "reverse optimus" where the UHD630 is still trying to work as a renderer and the gtx card just draws the frames interfering with the GTX 1060?If i log out and back into windows, or disable and re-enable UHD630 in device manager, the laptop goes back to the non faulty state where all rendering is done by the discreet GTX 1060 card, but this is a workaround.

Even in the faulty state where the computer lags, fullscreen 3D applications like games (that render on the GTX card) are not affected by the system lag. When i quit the game and back to windows, all windows app's and desktop still lag (as they are rendered on the Intel card). So optimus doesn't properly switch between the gpu's?

So far, both MSI and especially Nvidia has show great interest in solving this and helping me faultfind. Intel however responded with a simple disclaimer that this is OEM's responsebilty and that i should use OEM drivers etc (which I have already tried). Disappointed in Intels lackluster interest, especially as it seems the Intel integrated graphic might be the problem here.

n_scott_pearson · ‎10-14-2020

When dual graphics engines are being supported, the interactions between the two solutions is managed by custom code developed by the laptop vendor and not by Intel or NVIDIA or AMD. This issue is thus one that MSI, as the laptop vendor, needs to sort out.

Secondly, many of you are downloading and installing driver packages directly from the Intel, NVIDIA and AMD sites. You should not be doing this. When you do, the customizations provided by the laptop vendor can be wiped out, resulting in anomalous operation and features not working. You should not be doing this. If you need a subsequent driver from Intel, NVIDIA or AMD that delivers a particular fix that you need, you need to be getting the customized version from your laptop vendor. If they are not offering the correct version, you need to be asking them to provide it.

...S

pmehr4 · ‎10-15-2020

Thank you for your reply. It might be that the graphic switching coding is done by OEM, but i find it strange that both Dell, Lenovo, and MSI manage to do this wrong, end up with the exact same fault, specific to systems with i7-8750h in combination with 10 gen nvidia chips. It's definitive that this is not specific to one OEM. Multiple brands of laptops have this issue, and they all run 8 gen intel cpu's with Intel UHD630 graphics. I had a 7'th i7 in a almost identical laptop prior to this one with a GTX 1050 ti, and did not have this stuttering issue. All other reports of this phenomena are on 8'th gen intel systems so far.

When it comes to drivers, I have been running OEM drivers provided by MSI for the most of the time, and the issue has been there all the time. This problem has been here since i got the laptop (at which time the system was untouched). I went for the latest manufacture drivers from Nvidia and Intel after installing the software that updates them during faultfinding half a year ago, and have had no problems what so over running the latest updated drivers (except the problem that is there no matter what drivers). After trying with OEM drivers once again, I was told by MSI to use geforce experience to update to the latest NVIDIA drivers during troubleshooting. The OEM drivers provided are now over a year old, and geforce experience says "critical update", as the old drivers does not provide sufficient functionality in geforce experience (recording etc). So, all i all, as the problem does not go away with OEM drivers, and new manufacture drivers provide more functionality and better performance, I see no reason to use OEM drivers.

n_scott_pearson · ‎10-15-2020

You are free to think whatever you want and do whatever you want. Have fun!

...S

MarekWRO · ‎10-21-2020

I think this interesting case. People reporting problem... that is present also on OEM drivers, and all companies, DELL, INTEL, MSI... claiming that this is not their fault also "Retired Employee" claims that we can think whatever we want.

First class support from INTEL... thank you

pmehr4 · ‎10-21-2020

Yeah, some people get easily offended when theire tips don't work out. I did however eventually get some really good support, troubleshooting and very informative email from intel. MSI and Nvidia was also very helpful in troubleshooting and it seems MSI and intel was, after some digging on their own, in possesion of info on this matter. I post the last reply from intel here. Hopefully a driver or firmware update might resolve the issue at least on MSI. 8 days left of warranty, wondering if i should opt for a replacement unit.

Email from intel:

"Thank you for your reply.

After doing some more research on this matter, it seems that the Optimus Routing Layer is not being able to properly handle the GPU management. While this technology is newer and more advanced than the older DMA technology, it adds a lot of complexity to the transfers of memory used by your dedicated GPU and your integrated GPU.

The Optimus Routing Layer also includes a kernel-level library for recognizing and managing specific classes and objects associated with different graphics devices.

The fact that it cannot properly switch between the two GPUs, indicates that there is a hardware or driver incompatibility. This kind of issues usually happen on consumer laptops that have not been extensively tested prior to launch.

I would advise you to use only the OEM drivers on your laptop and request for your laptop manufacturer to either manage the compatibility issue trough driver updates or replace the laptop under warranty.

Unfortunately, there is nothing that we can help you with regarding this issue. MSI, NVidia and Intel are working together to find a solution for this inconsistency on a separate channel. MSI will release updated drivers that might fix the issue at a future time.

I will have to close your case in a short while. Please do not hesitate to contact us again regarding any Intel product and/or service.

Best regards,

Intel Customer Support"

dampflokfreund · ‎10-23-2020

@pmehr4

Finally a real response, I can't get out such a response of either Lenovo or Intel.

Please, please write them back that they should fix this issue globally, as laptops from other vendors do have this issue as well, it would be a shame if this gets only fixed for MSI.

dampflokfreund · ‎10-23-2020

Add Lenovo to that list.

This is not acceptable.

This is Intel's issue and they should fix it for all Optimus enabled devices with Pascal or newer GPUs. It is not the OEMs fault.

I have a Lenovo Y540 which can disable the integrated graphics and there, the stuttering issue doesn't happen. Only when Optimus is activated it happens.

So this is clearly an Intel issue.

I already contacted Lenovo and they are as clueless as ever about this they do not provide any help.

MarekWRO · ‎09-18-2020

Hi I have the same issue. And the same solution you described works for me.

Only dissable and enable intel card fix issue.

I have now latest drivers:

intel: UHD 630 - 27.20.100.8681

nvidia: 27.21.14.5206

cpu: 87-750H

dell G5

NicolaiS · ‎09-29-2020

I did experience the exact same issues, just with my lenovo X1 Extreme Gen1 Model: (20MF).
Many of my colleages with the same laptop do as well.

The current only solution is to restart the machine or to disable and enable the pnpdevice.

We have updated with the newest OEM Intel UHD driver without luck. version 27.20.100.8587

I have tried with the newest intel UHD driver as well from intel website, 27.20.100.8681

I do think Intel should consider it to be their problem as well, since so many different models have this issue.

gusta · ‎12-07-2020

Hi, I have a version of the Mag-15/Fusion-15 from a Brazilian vendor and noticed the same issue. I can make the GTX 1660ti control all processing for the external monitor by plugging it in, turning off the laptop display, and rebooting the computer. After that the iGPU is off until I turn the laptop display back on. However, when I do so, it seems that the dGPU takes control of the external monitor and the iGPU controls the laptop display and things seem to work as expected (at least by me).

dampflokfreund · ‎06-24-2021

Issue is still not fixed.

Let's hope Windows 11 will for all our machines, as it does seem to change a lot under the hood.

dampflokfreund · ‎06-29-2021

Indeed, I can confirm this issue has been adressed with Windows 11 even using the insider preview. It no longer appears.

pmehr4 · ‎11-12-2021

I'm Happy to see that this issue is resolved with Windows 11, as it seems many people are struggling with it.

I however got really lucky, as the Norwegian shop where the unit had been bought was eager to have the unit sent to them for faultfinding as it was still within warranty when I contacted them and I had the original receipt. As they could not fix the problem, I got the full original value of the laptop refunded in cash, which was more than twice the amount I paid for it in early 2020 as I bought it second hand. After some months of waiting for the new RTX 3000 series, i bought a Lenovo Legion 5 on a introduction sale, with Ryzen 7 5800h and a RTX 3070 for less money than i actually got refunded. This graphic switching bug worked out to be a really good thing for me 🙂 cheapest upgrade I will probably ever have.