14900K performance-extreme profiles

[chugzillafx]

ok does anyone know for sure 100% if we have to or need to use the intel default profiles to keep our CPUs safe?

i was told we don't and we can use default MB settings as long as we set the 253-253-400.

i just want to know if this is true.

[PC1997]

Yes. If you want your CPU to last as long as possible you must use Intel's true default profile: PL2 = 253 - PL1 = 125 & 307 amps.

If you use the performance profile - 253/253 you will probably be okay, but it is still a long-term possibility of damage but way less likely. And if you use the extreme profile, you will definitely degrade your cpu, it's just a matter of short time. Run "unlimited" profile power settings and your chip WILL degrade as sure as bananas need the Sun.

Intel has correctly listed motherboard power profiles as the number one cause, followed by their own microcode, which supposedly is fixed if you have the latest 12B revision.

Sharing my personal experience having ruined 2 CPUs at my own risk overclocking.

[chugzillafx]

well, I'm not sure but i can tell you this when testing and using either the performance-extreme profiles my 14900K has higher voltages-higher temps-and lower performance vs when i use the Asus default Oc profile on my z790 gaming-e MB.

so, i have MCE set to disabled-enforce all limits then in the power management section i have 253-253-400.

i think that's the way to go as far as i have read the microcode in 0x12B fixed everything and we should be safe now no matter what settings we use.

and it was high voltages degrading the CPUs not the heat-temps.

[PC1997]

Yes, high voltages definitely was causing degradation... but also too much power draw will cause it as well. It just depends on your cooling and how much you can pull before hitting thermal throttle limits. Case in point, you direct die cool your CPU, and you can pull 400 watts and be under 100°C great, right? Nope. All that heat will degrade the cpu. That's the insidious part that you have to ruin multiple CPUs to figure out.

The thing is: you're not actually preventing that heat from being generated, you're quickly absorbing the heat in said scenario. How fast degradation occurs depends on the voltage - but you simply cannot run that kind of heat density through Raptor Lake with known vulnerabilities in the chip design.

It's like saying you have a turbo, boost controller, perfect timing and air fuel ratio, oil temps are good, coolant temps are perfect and yet your perfectly running engine keeps throwing rods through the block because of all that power you are making and the engine design simply can't handle it.

Of course, I'm all for overclocking... just pointing out what we need to know.

[chugzillafx]

i have a 420mm AIO and on the cinebenchr23 30-minute run it never went over 74C using the Asus default Oc profile with 253-253-400 set and MCE set to disabled-enforce all limits, so ide say I'm good.

when that 30-minute run was going my voltages were under 1.25 and idle was 1.45.

[PC1997]

The performance profile shouldn't cause you any problems.. but it may or may not long term. Btw, I have 3 rads 560, 420 & 280 and that didn't save my CPUs when too much power was pulled through them, specifically too many amps.

I'll pass the torch and let someone else here reply. gl

[chugzillafx]

well amps=voltage so as long as we run 253-253-400< that's the amps we should be fine.

and i just got my 14900K yesterday with microcode 0x12B already installed from months ago.

not sure how or why your CPUs degraded but I'm sure it happened long before the 0x12B since that's newer.

and i just watched no less than 5 videos on YT saying not to use either intel default profiles because of the high voltages and loadline 1.1m0hms that will cause the CPUs to degrade even faster.

so I'm just going to stick with what works i have 60 days to test this out and if by day 45 i see any signs of degradation ill simply send it back and put my 12900K back in.

[PC1997]

"Following extensive investigation of the Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop processor Vmin Shift Instability issue, Intel can now confirm the root cause diagnosis for the issue. This post will cover Intel’s understanding of the root cause, as well as additional mitigations and next steps for Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop users.

Vmin Shift Instability Root Cause

Intel® has localized the Vmin Shift Instability issue to a clock tree circuit within the IA core which is particularly vulnerable to reliability aging under elevated voltage and temperature. Intel has observed these conditions can lead to a duty cycle shift of the clocks and observed system instability.

Intel® has identified four (4) operating scenarios that can lead to Vmin shift in affected processors:

1. Motherboard power delivery settings exceeding Intel power guidance.
a. Mitigation: Intel® Default Settings recommendations for Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors.
2. eTVB Microcode algorithm which was allowing Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen i9 desktop processors to operate at higher performance states even at high temperatures.
a. Mitigation: microcode 0x125 (June 2024) addresses eTVB algorithm issue.
3. Microcode SVID algorithm requesting high voltages at a frequency and duration which can cause Vmin shift.
a. Mitigation: microcode 0x129 (August 2024) addresses high voltages requested by the processor.
4. Microcode and BIOS code requesting elevated core voltages which can cause Vmin shift especially during periods of idle and/or light activity.
a. Mitigation: Intel® is releasing microcode 0x12B, which encompasses 0x125 and 0x129 microcode updates, and addresses elevated voltage requests by the processor during idle and/or light activity periods."

There are two parts to the equation:

Either too much power, and/or not having the updated microcode is the root cause. Meaning, if you only have the latest microcode and you run whatever power preference you like and it's too high, the vulnerable circuits within the CPU are going to degrade. The question becomes at what power level and when will the degradation happen.. what people get right is, yes, too much voltage will be a problem for all CPUs... specifically with the vulnerable Raptor Lake processors. BUT, what people get wrong is, they think as long as they're voltage is low enough (better) that they can run a all-core workload at 100s of watts and nothing is going to happen to thier CPU as long as they have sufficient cooling. Of course cooler is better, but just looking at the TJ max temperature doesn't tell you everything that's going on inside your CPU.

[chugzillafx]

yeah, i already saw that and read it but what you are not understanding is that when using the intel default profiles everything is elevated so i don't see how that will stop any CPU from degrading over time.

i don't trust the profiles that's why i initially asked do we need to use them.

my manual settings are much better.

[PC1997]

I definitely think you should be able to do what you want. Your cpu, Your computer.

And you definitely bring up a valid question that I should have answered, but I thought since the latest bios update by default includes the correct specification, there was no need to discuss it...

You are correct that a few months ago the so-called 'Intel default profile' was really just that in name and motherboard manufacturers were doing whatever they wanted still... which included, as you know, excessively High voltages...like 1.65 V just sitting in the bios screen lol. But if you download the latest bios update, it appears they understand the seriousness of the situation and while I cannot speak for every board vendor, I'm 99% sure they are all setting the correct parameters now. But it's a good idea to check all the settings and cross references them with the data sheet for your processor.

You are wise to be skeptical of mobo profiles. I just don't think most of the TechTubers bother to release updated videos clarifying the situation...but maybe, I believe some have.

[chugzillafx]

yeah, that's why i went and manually set all the settings myself but not all because the IA AC lineload should not be 1.1m0hm that's crazy high and leads to crazy high voltages and temps.

so, i think if we know enough settings our own settings and disabling the default MB settings that are incorrect, we should be ok lol.

who knows anymore I'm just glad the store i bought it from gives me a 60 day return window, and intel gives us 5 years now to RMA.

but i do appreciate all your input and feedback.