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Timlab55
Beginner
3,333 Views

I7-9700K

Recently, I learned that in Windows 10 pro, I can control the my chip with power options.  I currently run a program called Handbrake which if you know the program loves to rap up my processor.  First time I ran the program it got the temp up there really quick to the point that I had to shut it down.  So I did some research on the problem and found out to use the power option method in controlling the temp of my processor.  My question is in my power option I have it set to balanced, and then down under "Processor Power Management", I have under "Maximum Processor State" I have it set for 85%.  Does this hurt the processor by any chance when I use this method in controlling my chip to run a program?   

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30 Replies
Alberto_Sykes
Employee
3,114 Views

Timlab55, Thank you for posting in the Intel® Communities Support.

 

In reference to your question, the “Power Options” on Windows* are there to manage the power/energy of the Intel® Processor itself and the overall system as well, the Intel® Processor should work fine even if the "Maximum Processor State" option is set to 100%.

 

Based on that fact, we just wanted to verify:

You mentioned that the temperature increase quickly when opening the “Handbrake” program, which application are you using to verify the temperature?

At the moment when you run the “Handbrake” application, is the PC crashing (BOSD), getting freeze or going off by itself?

What is the model of the motherboard?

This PC, it also shows the same problem when running other applications/programs or doing other activities?

Did you check the system requirements for the “Handbrake” program, just to make sure the PC complies with them?

 

Any questions, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Albert R.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel

 

Timlab55
Beginner
3,108 Views

I replied to  your message, but for some reason it came back to me.  So here are my answers to your question.  

You mentioned that the temperature increase quickly when opening the 
“Handbrake” program, which application are you using to verify the 
temperature? The program that I use is called Core Temp 1.15.1.  In 
addition to this program, not all the time but a few times my fans 
would rap up to high speed.  It's like maybe for 30 seconds and then 
everything is fine for the rest of the evening or day.  I would also 
like to point out that, that it's not when I start "Handbrake", it's 
when I'm starting the "Encodeing".  It also happens when I run a full 
system scan when I'm using Norton.

At the moment when you run the “Handbrake” application, is the PC 
crashing (BOSD), getting freeze or going off by itself? I have not had 
any of the crashing (BOSD), or freezing or going off by itself.  I 
don't allow this to happen and that is the reason why I keep the 
"Maximum Processor State" at 85%.  Even tho, I would love to raise it, 
I'm kinda of scared to let it do this, as I don't have tons of extra 
dollars hanging around if I should hurt this processor as I'm sure you 
would understand.

What is the model of the motherboard?  I have the AUSA Z-390-e 
motherboard, and to answer your next question, no it's not 
overclocked.  The memory is not overclocked.

This PC, it also shows the same problem when running other 
applications/programs or doing other activities? It doesn't show any 
of the things you mention above.  The only thing I've noticed other 
than with Handbrake and Norton is when I'm playing my game "World of 
Warships", is sometimes there is a lag or my system fans would rap up 
for about 30 seconds or so, and then slowly go back to normal.

Sincerely

Dan Regalia



Alberto_Sykes
Employee
3,090 Views

Timlab55, Thank you very much for letting us know that information.

 

In order to rule out a possible problem with the Intel® Processor we can always run the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool, it does an overall test on the unit and if it passes the test it means it is working fine:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/19792/Intel-Processor-Diagnostic-Tool

 

Additionally, to monitor the temperatures of the Intel® Processor we recommend to install the Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility application:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/29183/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-?product=6642...

 

In reference to the game "World of Warships", did you check the minimal system requirements to make sure your computer complies with them?

 

We recommend also to get in contact directly with ASUS to make sure the BIOS is working with default settings, making sure none of the options in there is overclocking the unit since sometimes the BIOS contains features that will do that automatically, and also to gather the instructions to do a BIOS update to the latest version which is 1602:

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z390-E-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/

 

Regards,

Albert R.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel


Timlab55
Beginner
3,084 Views

On 9/24/2020 9:38 AM, Intel Community wrote:

Hi Timlab55,

Alberto_R_Intel1 (Moderator) posted a new reply in Processors on 09-24-2020 09:38 AM:

Re:I7-9700K

Timlab55, Thank you very much for letting us know that information.

 

In order to rule out a possible problem with the Intel® Processor we can always run the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool, it does an overall test on the unit and if it passes the test it means it is working fine:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/19792/Intel-Processor-Diagnostic-Tool  As you mentioned...

 

Additionally, to monitor the temperatures of the Intel® Processor we recommend to install the Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility application:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/29183/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-?product=6642...

 

In reference to the game "World of Warships", did you check the minimal system requirements to make sure your computer complies with them?  Yes, I pass all the minimal system requirements on both setting.

 

We recommend also to get in contact directly with ASUS to make sure the BIOS is working with default settings, making sure none of the options in there is overclocking the unit since sometimes the BIOS contains features that will do that automatically, and also to gather the instructions to do a BIOS update to the latest version which is 1602:  As for the BIOS, it is 1602.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z390-E-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/

 

Regards,

Albert R.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel



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Alberto_Sykes
Employee
3,045 Views

Timlab55, Thank you very much for sharing those details.

 

Just to confirm, did the Intel® Processor passed the Intel® PDT test?

If the unit failed the test, do you see any errors on the report? You can see it by choosing the option “File” and then “View File Report” on the tool itself?

What is the temperature value reported by the Intel® XTU application?

 

Regards,

Albert R.

 

Intel Customer Support Technician

A Contingent Worker at Intel


Timlab55
Beginner
3,040 Views

To answer your questions:

If the unit failed the test, do you see any errors on the report? You can see it by choosing the option “File” and then “View File Report” on the tool itself?  If left on my settings (85%), then I can run the complete test and it will pass.  If I ramp up the power option to 100% (which I don't prefer to do unless I know that Intel will cover my chip if I over heat it), then I can run the test for about 20 secs and according to your temp meter and my temp meter it will go over 200 degrees.

What is the temperature value reported by the Intel® XTU application?:  Again, please re-read the above.

Thank You

Dan Regalia

 

Timlab55
Beginner
3,015 Views

Again, if Intel will replace my chip if the chip runs the complete test and runs very hot, will Intel replace my chip?  Simple question.  If not, then I believe Intel knows something about these chips that they aren't telling the public and there will lose faith in Intel.  However, if Intel will replace my chip after running their test at 100% if the chip get's to hot for a long time, will Intel replace it and the public will see that Intel is not hiding anything.  Again Simple Question.

Dan

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
3,000 Views

If you want to talk ridiculous conspiracy theories, go someplace else. Your (so-called simple) question is nothing but drivel.

If your processor is allowed to overheat to the point that it is damaged, then that is your fault. It is your responsibility to provide a cooling solution that properly keeps the processor from spending any appreciable amount of time in the vicinity of Tjmax. Having to use the windows limiter to limit the load to 85% tells me that you have a cooling problem that you need to fix. You have a cooling solution that is inadequate, improperly installed, improperly configured or is being prevented from doing its job (by dust buildup, improperly routed wiring, etc.).

Sorry, but this is reality,

...S

Timlab55
Beginner
2,997 Views

I know I don't have a cooling problem, thank you.  According to your title of "Super User Retired Employee", mind if I ask you what you did for Intel and be honest if you can.  But as far as my rig goes, no I don't have a cooling problem.  I have 3 fans on top which are outgoing.  3 fans in front which are in coming, a large fan on the tower inside the rig and 1 fan on the side which is incoming.  So with 7 fans, no I don't have a cooling problem.  If you had read everything, as the facts of life, you can go out and purchase something brand new, have it for a couple of days and blow something.  All I ask was "because my CPU reaches TJM when very fast when 100%, will it hurt the chip if  I use Windows Pro 10 to keep it going that high.  In addition to that, doesn't these chips have a safety net and everything else built into them that would keep them from going that high in the first place?  If so, do I have a bad chip because mine never did that.  Another fact of life, is you can go out purchase a car or whatever, have it a few days and then something goes wrong.  Maybe my chip is like that.  So that is a fact of life and as you put it "but this is reality".

Dan

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,991 Views

Well, amongst other things, I worked on thermals, acoustics and cooling in the Desktop Boards group. When that business was shut down, I did a similar job in the group producing the NUCs and Compute Sticks. I was project lead and architect for Intel Quiet System Technology (QST), a cooling subsystem implemented in the chipset (within the Management Engine) for a number of years.

While it is (sadly) true that processor thermals are getting more and more volatile the past few years, it is still your job to provide a cooling solution that keeps the processor from spending any appreciable amount of time in the vicinity of Tjmax (~100c). Saying it another way, you can't stop Core-level temperatures from shooting up quickly like they do, but you can certainly make sure that the cooling solution does something about this as quickly and efficiently as possible. It is the amount of time that the temperature spends in the vicinity of Tjmax that it is important to minimize. To answer your question, no, using the O/S to limit processor utilization is not guaranteed to accomplish this.

The processor does provide some protection. Once Core temperatures reach Tjmax, the processor will throttle itself (by lowering clock multiplier) to protect it. If temperatures continue to rise (which, unfortunately, you cannot tell is happening since the DTS only provide readings up to Tjmax), you will reach THERMTRIP, the point where the processor cuts power to protect itself from meltdown. IMHO, this protection is not something that you rely on. It is stop-gap measures, nothing more. You need to have a cooling solution that is effective in dissipating the heat being generated.

...S

Timlab55
Beginner
2,981 Views

Dear Mr. Pearson;

You know I completely understand your 2nd post than your 1st.  Therefore, I thank you completely in your reply.  Okay, now that I complete understand what your trying to get across, and because  (according to you) a very good expert in this area, may I pick your mind (if you feel it's the cooling problem that I have), to ask you what can I do?  If your up to this, I would greatly appreciate your help in this matter.  If you agree, I will send you pictures of the type of case I have, the type of fans I have, and how they are hooked up, and the cooler that I'm using.

In your 2nd statement where you said  "To answer your question, no, using the O/S to limit processor utilization is not guaranteed to accomplish this."  in my situation, this has worked well!  Running programs from Intel's programs and using Handbrake at 85%, my CPU has constantly never gone close to TJ Max.  I'm actually happy with that, as I do not have the extra cash right now to go out and purchase another chip, if I hurt this one.  But for the chip to start to throttle itself, how much time does it need to spend in or pass TJ Max?  

Sincerely

Dan 

 

 

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,954 Views

What your case looks like really doesn't interest me that much. I don't mind discussing how to improve things. in fact, I have some comments already:

  1. Remember that the air being drawn into the chassis and the air being exhausted from the chassis should be balanced. A significant difference will cause a positive/negative pressure situation and this will both impede airflow and reduce the effectiveness of the overall solution.
  2. Having a good processor cooling subsystem is only half of the battle. You have to ensure that this solution is properly reacting to temperature change. This is usually done by a separate controller on the board. In most cases this is implemented with the Super I/O (SIO) component. The programming of this component needs to ensure that the reaction to temperature increase (or decrease) is such that it limits the heat sustained by the processor. Usually, this configuration is controlled from a page in BIOS Setup. You don't want to do what most people (unfortunately) do, namely leave this configuration set to whatever crappy defaults are provided in the BIOS. You want to play with it, as you run your heaviest software loads, and ensure that it is addressing the heat being produced at the lowest acoustic penalty.
  3. Speaking of which, while you want your cooling solution to keep the processor temperature down, you want to do it in such a way that the acoustics are not unbearable. Remember that the lower the temperature of the air being provided to the processor's cooling solution, the slower this air has to be moved to dissipate the same amount of heat. What this means is that, as processor temperatures rise, you want the chassis fans to also be reacting to this change. They can typically be sped up a goodly amount without this change being audible. This will allow the processor fan to run at a slower speed when under load and save acoustics.
  4. BTW, the exact same situation exists for an add-in graphics card. You have a side fan that is blowing air down onto this card. Having this fan speed up can help keep the speed of the graphics card's fan(s) lower.
  5. Regarding using O/S limiting, while it will work in general, the problem (worry) is that depending upon what is being done, you could have the same amount of heat produced in the processor at 85% as you would at 100%. Thus, it is better to get the cooling right to maintain temperatures naturally.

...S

Timlab55
Beginner
2,944 Views

I figure I would start off by showing a picture of my Dual Intelligent processors 5 program (from ASUS), is showing me.   Of course this is with 1 browers going and basically doing nothing.  According to my other program Core Temp that the load is between 6-12%.  I also found out that the air cooler that I have only puts out 43 CFM's.  I'm currently looking at another air cooler that has 82 CFM's.  However, I would like to point out that Intel said that my current air cooler is fine which is the 

UX200 ARGB Lighting CPU Cooler

CL-P065-AL12SW-A made my Thermaltake.  
n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,931 Views

That would seem to be an ok looking cooler (I am not into the bling), but I couldn't find any wattage dissipation specification. You want one that can handle 100W (and better 120W) TDP.

...S

Timlab55
Beginner
2,803 Views

Hey Scott;

I downloaded the Intel extreme Tuning (even tho I can't run it at 100%), but I remember back when this stuff all started that everyone told me that if this chip got to hot that it would Throttle back or do some stuff to keep it from going crazy on me.  So I ran the program and noticed that down on the bottom of the page the following appear:  "Thermal Throttling" No, "Power Limit Throttling" No, "Current/EDP Limit Throttling" No, "Motherboard VR Thermal" No, "PMAX Throttling" No.  I guess this chip didn't make the lottery then because there is actually no back up to keep this chip from blowing up, unless there is away (that I don't know) to turn all the above to say "yes".  Can you help me out on this please?

Dan

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,797 Views

Either the tool is OTL or I don't understand what is going on. I am going to consult with the experts. I will let you know...

...S

Timlab55
Beginner
2,793 Views

What does OTL mean and thank you for asking them for me.

Sincerely

Dan

n_scott_pearson
Super User Retired Employee
2,790 Views

OTL = Out To Lunch, as in not working right. There's an acronym for everything at Intel. If nothing else, I am a product of my (former) work environment.    ;^)

...S

Timlab55
Beginner
2,785 Views

Timlab55
Beginner
1,166 Views

FYI -

I checked the spec sheet on the chip and it states that all those "no", should actually say "yes" if I'm reading it right.

Dan

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