i9-13900K : very frequent crashes (Windows 11) with apps, games and benches

[LoloWiwi]

Hi,

I built a setup in April 2023 with :

- Intel Core i9-13900K

- Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero

- 2x32 GB Corsair Vengeance 6600 MHz

- Asus ROG 4090

- Asus ROG Thor 850 Watts

From the very beginning, I had sometimes BSODs, and several apps/games crashing very "reliably".

Even though the PC: 

- Not overclocked (no XMP, so RAM is running at 4800 MHz)

- No Tweaks of any sort in the Bios / default values from Asus Bios.

- Windows 11 Pro 10.0.22621

- Windows / Drivers / Bios are up to date with latest versions as of today.

The tests :

- Prime95 : with smallest and small FFT (to only test CPU and CPU cache) -> gives FATAL ERROR (prime numbers errors) on some CPU cores after a few minutes. 

- Cinebench R23 in single core : no problem, no crash during the 10min run

- Cinebench R23 in multi-core : crashes after 2 to 30 seconds systematically.

- GPU tests are fine, they complete with no crash (Furmark)

- Memtest86 : did several runs on the mem at 4800 and 6600 -> no errors, all tests PASS.

- a few games such as Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon Zero Dawn : almost systematically crash when launched.

A couple of days ago, I realized that it's probably the CPU: 

- I use an app for 3D Printing called a "slicer" who prepares the file for 3D printing that would consistently crash on my Windows 11 setup during slicing (after 5 to 10 seconds max), but not on a virtual machine installed with VirtualBox (Windows 10)

- Somebody advised me to try to set the Affinity for the CPU Cores/Threads in Windows 11.

- Also, I found a lot of reports in forums/reddit about problems with i9-13900K...

Since then, when I set the Affinity of the apps for only a few cores:

- Bambu Studio slicing fine, no crash whatsoever if affinity set to 8 first (CPU0 to CPU7)

- Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon Zero Dawn : they both run fine when affinity set to 8 first (CPU0 to CPU7), but crash as soon as I change affinity back to all cores/threads.

- Cinebench multi-core : systematically crashes no matter what subset of cores/threads I set.

Weirdly enough, I tried the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool: it always passes, but I don't trust its results, since I've so many other apps/games crashing, and reports by people on the web...

So, I need help please with that, I can't trust my CPU even though I need my PC for work every day...

Intel SSU report attached.

[Juliansama]

I am experiencing this problem on my i9-13900k right now. Updated ASUS BIOS and new BIOS setting are not working for me. I am trying to go for RMA. (I was getting status access violation/status breakpoint when replying this post. smh) GL guys.

[DavidCF]

Hi there,

  Intel just replaced my i9-13900k.

My pc was crashing all the time, 200 since I got the chip it in July of 2023.

Got another chip and the setup was solid.

So find a way to prove to Intel that it is the chip,

they will ask you to send it back and if they find it faulty they will replace it.

[JayPrakash]

This is stupid. We shouldnt be doing all this just to get the CPU working properly. 

[LoloWiwi]

TO EVERYBODY IN THIS THREAD : you must update your bios with the most recent version !

Long story :

You probably heard about the bug in Intel's microcode that was discovered in July 2024 (called "0x129") ?

Just to summarize : my 13900K was very unstable so I created this thread on the forum.

I got a lot of very good feedback and advice, so thanks to everybody who participated!

I RMAed it a few months ago and got a 14900K.

The 14900K was much more stable, but still some random crashes every now and then and systematic crashes with my 3D slicer (very good piece of software to spot the CPU problem ;)) if it was running on all available threads (32).

But since mid-August :

- The bug in the microcode has been fixed by Intel and motherboard vendors have released bios updates

- I've installed the motherboard update (Asus, in my case)

- Since then, no crashes at all :

  I ran Prime95 for 14 hours : no errors, no warnings

  I ran Intel XTU test on AVX2 for 2 hours : no errors

Intel said that some CPUs might have been "broken" because of the bug (to make it simple) and crashes could still occur even after the MB bios update -> in this case, CPU has to be RMAed (they extended warranty to 5 years for 13th and 14th gen).

In my specific case, I've been lucky : stress tests show that my 14900K is OK.

This nightmare seems to be finally over once and for all (or maybe until the next surprise ;))

Hope this will help those who have been living a nightmare for several months!

[seitam]

Great news LoloWiwi

I also had my 13900kf RMAed for another 13900kf.

no crashes since last two weeks.

BIOS update worked, but XTU Stress Test (AVX2 for 5 minutes) shows some warnings.

Just wondering if your test show this kind of message or nothing at all, can you tell me?

Also, if thats the case, what do I have to do to fix these messages?

attached an image for clarification.

[LoloWiwi]

Hey @seitam

All good : throttling is normal, and your AVX2 passed

Here is mine :

Piece of advice : 5mn is not enough to rely on the results.

I ran Prime95 for 13hrs, and XTU stress test AVX2 for 3hrs.

Personally, I have more trust into Prime95 than XTU stress test (Prime95 is widely used and trusted and not affiliated in any way to Intel) :

- Download Prime95 at https://www.mersenne.org/download/

- Launch "Small FFTs" torture test (it only tests CPU, which is what we want) and let it run for a good 12 hours.

- The output is super ugly, but basically, you want to have 0 errors, 0 warnings in all the windows (1 per core) at the end 

[Maciekish]

I have a fun variation of this degradation issue. 14900K, was fine for 1.5month, started to BSOD, reinstalled, couldnt install Nvidia, applied BIOS tweaks, fine for 1.5month then started BSOD again. Delidded + BIOS tweaks again (before real reason of degradation was known), again fine for 1.5month or so, now 3 days ago Starcraft II and Baldrus Gate 3 crash randomly with fatal errors or just to desktop. Funny thing is, i can run P95, Intel Burn Test and Cinebench for hours without issues, both in single and multithreaded modes, i reinstalled Windows and Nvidia also installed no problem. All these things were problematic before, but games worked mostly fine, now the problem is inversed... Finally "fixed" it by disabling the preferred cores (4&5 for me). I had them downclocked to 5.7Ghz before but thats not enough anymore...

[LoloWiwi]

Oh my...

RMA is the only solution, unless you "enjoy" the situation

[seitam]

oh thank you! I used prime95 when testing the new processor. I will test it again as you said.

Intel do not accept prime95 results but everyone else use it to really test stuffs.

thanks again

[LoloWiwi]

You are right, Intel won't accept Prime95 but will accept Intel XTU with AVX2 results.

Still, it's good to test with Prime95 (prime95 won't lie about instabilities -> errors/warnings), then XTU AVX2 should raise the problem as well (let it run for hours).

[KwaggaDan]

Very critical though, Microsoft counts a BIOS update as a hardware change. If you have a legacy copy of Windows (like you bought 10 and took the free upgrade to 11) Microsoft will make you purchase a new license.

[pressed_for_time]

Despite numerous BIOS updates on my ASUS motherboard recently there has been no sign of it affecting Windows 11 activation. I don't even see how a BIOS update would register as a hardware change. Even though I have changed motherboards, CPUs and graphic cards the activation trouble shooter soon activates Windows again. As far as I can see there is no situation where "Microsoft will make you purchase a new license." And yes I did have a legacy copy of Windows 10 that was upgraded.

[KwaggaDan]

It could be different. I've done 3 Gigabyte BIOS updates and after every one I had issues with Windows Activation and the only way Microsoft Customer Support advised was to repurchase a Windows license.

[pressed_for_time]

My Windows key is an electronic key linked to a Microsoft account. As I said I don't get activation issues from BIOS updates and even significant hardware changes are easily dealt with by using the activation troubleshooter. If this is not your scenario then the results may be different. But it sounds like it is a Windows license/Microsoft account issue rather than anything to do with BIOS updates as such.

[Geek_sam]

I had similar issue back when the same gigabyte Z690 updated it's bios, have to call CS to wave the ban and re-activate, since then due to this degradation issue I've done frequent bios update, and luckily windows 11 OEM version didn't require me to re-activate there after

[NobleNinja]

I cannot even run Intel(R) Extreme Tuning Utility.. 

I get error message "unable to start XTU because the drivers are not present"

I have i9 14900K and a fresh Windows 11.

[Outgrave]

Asus Maximus Hero Z790

Intel 13900KF

2*16GB Gskill neo DDR5-7200

Asus ryujin III

Asus Thor 1200W

SSD Samsung 990 Pro 2Tb *1, 980 Pro 2Tb *2

Asus Tuf 3800Ti oc

Same problem with my 13900KF, new bios with svid behavior on default intel fail safe.

No problem in AVX test on xtu but with intel processor diagnostic tool

Module Math_PrimeNum.exe Completed - Fail
No valid errorcode returned
Error Code -1073741676
Module Math_PrimeNum.exe terminated with no errorcode

And with Avx test on Occt

00:00:00 - Info - Test schedule started at 2024-09-17 03:10:59
00:00:00 - Info - CPU - Started (Duration : 00:30:00)
00:00:02 - Error - CPU - 2 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:03 - Error - CPU - 5 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:04 - Error - CPU - 7 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:05 - Error - CPU - 5 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:06 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:07 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:08 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:09 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:10 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:11 - Error - CPU - 5 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:12 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:13 - Error - CPU - 6 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:15 - Error - CPU - 10 error(s) found on physical core #4 - logical core #8
00:00:16 - Info - CPU - Test stopped
00:00:16 - Info - Schedule Completed

It's the worst processor of history, underclocked, always warm with a asus ryujin III (it's not a little cooling system), 89°C during processor diagnostic tools.

What can I do if the new XTU don't work fine? occt and others see many errors and I have crash apps, blue screen multiple, crash service.

[grsyoreo]

The Intel Core i9-13900K officially supports:

• DDR4 RAM up to 3200 MT/s
• DDR5 RAM up to 5600 MT/s1

To me it looks like people here are having issues because they are using RAM above the CPUs max rated speed. Try dialing back your RAM speeds and see if stability improves.

[LoloWiwi]

To everybody in this thread : 

- You might have seen the news yesterday : Intel has finally identified several root causes for the issues we have all been experiencing

- They are releasing patch 0x12B, that should be the final one (fingers crossed).

- You should go check the BIOS updates for your motherboards in a few days.

- Intel says there won't be any hit on performance.

Techradar : https://www.techradar.com/computing/cpu/is-intels-nightmare-finally-over-one-last-patch-could-fix-13th-gen-and-14th-gen-cpu-instability-issues

"The final patch required as a preventative measure to mitigate the gremlins in the works going forward with 13th and 14th-gen processors will be microcode update 0x12B. This addresses the final problem Intel discovered, namely: “Microcode and BIOS code requesting elevated core voltages which can cause Vmin shift especially during periods of idle and/or light activity.”

This patch will come with the previous two microcode fixes rolled into it, namely 0x125 and 0x129, which address issues with how Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) was misfiring, and elevated operating voltages due to a flaky algorithm, respectively.

Those are the three main factors involved in the instability on Intel’s side, with the fourth point – and the first matter to be raised by Intel – being motherboard power delivery settings having been notched up over and above Team Blue’s guidance levels. That led Intel to clarify new default power settings for CPUs from these two generations."

[grsyoreo]

This won't affect stability at all though and in fact you'll probably not even notice a change.

[grsyoreo]

your ram is above spec for that CPU and you can experience all kinds of system problems due to that.

for DDR5, 5600 is the max in the spec. Going above that is your risk. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Intel CPUs apart from some every minor voltage issues that most won't even notice.